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Old Jan 15, 13, 8:58 am   #1
 
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Help, Delta? AA?

I will be going to London or Paris or both, and will travel from SFO, San Francisco

I have noticed that most first class seats are taken and business is all that is available, and based on what I have seen, first class would be too expensive, so if I was to fly business, which airline/plane is the best for comfort etc?

Thanks for any input, I dont know which airlines go to London or Paris from San Francisco other than the big ones I mentioned and United, British Airways, etc.

Again, any input appreciated...
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Old Jan 15, 13, 9:09 am   #2
 
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If you are going to London on DL, there are no direct flights from SFO. Your best option for comfort would be to fly SFO-JFK-LHR. SFO-JFK is on a 757 with recliner style seats and business elite service (i.e. same service/meals as international business). The seats are much better than domestic first class seats, but aren't fully lie flat. For the JFK-LHR segment, you will get DL's newer fully lie-flat seats on a 767-400 (most likely) or a newly updated 767-300.

If you are going to Paris on DL, then you'll be flying Air France. Their seats are newer, but are not fully lie flat. They do indeed go completely "flat", but aren't horizontal to the ground and will be at a slight angle. Some people don't like that, as they can tend to slide down if they move around. Food and service is pretty good on AF, and wine selections might be a bit better.

Others can comment on AA, but I'll do my best. But if you fly SFO-LHR, then it would be on British Airways which has a great product and direct flight. There won't be direct flights to Paris, so can fly AA to one of their domestic hubs (DFW, ORD, etc) in domestic first class, then get a decent seat but similar to Air Frances with an angled recline but flat seat. You can also do BA and connect through LHR for a nice product on the long haul.

Are miles or elite status a factor in your decision? Or only seat comfort and on board experience?
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Old Jan 15, 13, 9:14 am   #3
 
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Well assuming you wanted to go non-stop your options are United, British Airways, Virgin Atlantic to London and Air France to Paris. United is also resuming Paris service this summer.

Neither Delta nor AA fly non-stop to Europe from SFO. You'd have to change planes at a hub elsewhere in the US.
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Old Jan 15, 13, 9:15 am   #4
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What are you looking for?

- Direct flights?
- Do you mind a connection?
- Lay flat seats?

On DL, all LHR flights have lie flat seats. You'd have to fly via MSP, DTW, ATL, JFK, or BOS. SFO-JFK service is a modified BusinessElite service using the 752's with 16 recliner BusinessElite seats; IIRC, they plan to incorporate the 763's with lie flat seats on this route as well in June 2013 (LINK).

For infomation on DL to LHR, see: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...london-dl.html

As far as CDG, I believe there are some routes to CDG that have/will have lie flat seats. See the following DL related threads;
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...-flat-cdg.html
Delta expands US-Paris operations
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Old Jan 15, 13, 9:19 am   #5
 
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BA is probably your best option, assuming it is price competitive. Credit the miles to your AA account.

DL requires a connection somewhere in the US, though you could fly Air France nonstop from Paris. I'd prefer the short connection in London with BA.
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Old Jan 15, 13, 9:26 am   #6
 
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You might want to see what combos of flight provider are available by looking at in matrix.itasoftware.com website. Use the multi city option ...
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Old Jan 15, 13, 10:24 am   #7
 
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Wow, thanks for all the info...I might want to go to Manhattan for a couple of days of this trip from SFO so that might work out for Delta, but if British Airways, when I go to Seat Guru, it is difficult to figure out which is business, i.e. world traveler etc.

Seems the 747 is the plane BA uses for that direct SFO flight...

Miles arent an issue, i only have them with United due to where I live and while we go to Hawaii every year we have never been to Europe.

I could go to the BA forum, but if anyone knows, when I look at BA on Seat Guru, I cant be sure which is business, is it "Club World Class"? that seems to be the one that is one layer below first...

And I see the Air France plane would be the A330-220 and there again I can figure out on SG what business class is. Or the 777-200, but in both cases, not sure which is business

Last edited by randys1; Jan 15, 13 at 10:33 am.
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Old Jan 15, 13, 10:48 am   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randys1 View Post
I could go to the BA forum, but if anyone knows, when I look at BA on Seat Guru, I cant be sure which is business, is it "Club World Class"? that seems to be the one that is one layer below first...
Yes, biz on BA is Club World. Upper deck seats are the best on the 747.

Quote:
Originally Posted by randys1 View Post
And I see the Air France plane would be the A330-220 and there again I can figure out on SG what business class is. Or the 777-200, but in both cases, not sure which is business
It is called Affaires.
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Old Jan 15, 13, 10:50 am   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randys1 View Post
Wow, thanks for all the info...I might want to go to Manhattan for a couple of days of this trip from SFO so that might work out for Delta, but if British Airways, when I go to Seat Guru, it is difficult to figure out which is business, i.e. world traveler etc.

Seems the 747 is the plane BA uses for that direct SFO flight...

Miles arent an issue, i only have them with United due to where I live and while we go to Hawaii every year we have never been to Europe.

I could go to the BA forum, but if anyone knows, when I look at BA on Seat Guru, I cant be sure which is business, is it "Club World Class"? that seems to be the one that is one layer below first...

And I see the Air France plane would be the A330-220 and there again I can figure out on SG what business class is. Or the 777-200, but in both cases, not sure which is business
BA:
World Traveler = Economy
World Traveler Plus = Premium Economy
Club World = Business
First = First

BA site for info on classes of service: http://www.britishairways.com/travel...s/public/en_gb
BA on FT: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...tive-club-446/

Air France:
Voyageur = Economy - http://www.airfrance.us/US/en/common...rt/economy.htm
Premium Voyageur = Premium Economy - http://www.airfrance.us/US/en/common...um_economy.htm
Affaires = Business - http://www.airfrance.us/US/en/common...t/business.htm
La Premier = First - http://www.airfrance.us/US/en/common...e_aeroport.htm

AF on FT: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/flyin...-partners-594/
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Old Jan 15, 13, 5:15 pm   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roknroll View Post
If you are going to Paris on DL, then you'll be flying Air France.
You have to fly Air France to Paris?
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Old Jan 15, 13, 8:11 pm   #11
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Be warned that BA charges for advanced seat reservations even in business class and sets aside some good seats seats only for their own elites. I don't know the details, but I think the fee is about $150 per person per long haul segment, with BA (maybe AA too) elites being exempt. If you want an upper deck seat (good luck), or to be seated together, or to avoid rear facing seats, plan to pay.
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Old Jan 15, 13, 9:19 pm   #12
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In regards to the JFK-CDG portion (if that's what the OP chooses and goes w/ DL), there's still one daily DL-operated flight on the 763ER w/ the cabin mod. J looked pretty nice on that but I can't speak from experience unfortunately (I was in EC on CDG-JFK and that was pretty good). AF J is also nice (got an op-up on an A330); they have good food and a fantastic Bordeaux (red wine). No Woodford though

-J.
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Old Jan 15, 13, 9:31 pm   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roknroll View Post
If you are going to Paris on DL, then you'll be flying Air France. Their seats are newer, but are not fully lie flat. They do indeed go completely "flat", but aren't horizontal to the ground and will be at a slight angle. Some people don't like that, as they can tend to slide down if they move around. Food and service is pretty good on AF, and wine selections might be a bit better.
Not all DL flights to Paris are on Air France. There are flights to CDG on Delta metal from MSP, ATL, DTW, SEA, CVG, JFK, ORD to name a few. Some cities, such as ATL and JFK, have flights on both AF and DL metal. The SEA and CVG flights have flat-bed seats in BE; flights from the other cities I listed do not have flat-bed seats.

It seems odd to me that CVG gets the flat-bed seats rather than one of the bigger hubs.

Last edited by CarmenOM; Jan 15, 13 at 9:42 pm.
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