Accused of, and threatened because of "solicitation" at a Skyclub
Nov 17, 2012, 2:49 pm
#1
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Accused of, and threatened because of "solicitation" at a Skyclub
This is a long story and definitely on the rant side of story so please bear with me.
I arrived a few minutes ago at the Skyclub at ATL by gate E14. While waiting to present my credentials I overheard a woman and her friend in front of me being told they were ineligable for access. I then offered my boarding pass and said "I get two guests, they can come in with me", something I have done with many airlines and many lounge memberships in the past. The agent on duty, whose name I got but will not post here, became hostile and rude. She initially objected to me doing this at all but I said "I'm a full Skyclub member, I am entiteld to two guests". She then infromed me she'd "make an exception" but told me in a manner as condescending as possible "don't do this again". I said the membership guide does not say I have to know the guests, just that they have to stay with me and leave when I do. She then infromed me if I did this again, my membership would be revoked.
By this point, the two women I tried to help said "we're leaving, we won't do business with a place who talks to you (meaning me) this way". They then thanked me and left. I also left. I am now at the F Concourse Skyclub and I asked the agent here about it and she said Delta considers what I did solicitiation. I said for it to be solicitation, didn't there have to be some comepensation changing hands? She informed me "management" had told them to stop anyone from doing this. This is certainly news to me and I rechecked the T&Cs and it doesn't seem to prohibit this. I wrote Delta an email, especially over the horribly rude way I was talked to and we'll see what they say.
Naturally, I put it here too...what say you?
I arrived a few minutes ago at the Skyclub at ATL by gate E14. While waiting to present my credentials I overheard a woman and her friend in front of me being told they were ineligable for access. I then offered my boarding pass and said "I get two guests, they can come in with me", something I have done with many airlines and many lounge memberships in the past. The agent on duty, whose name I got but will not post here, became hostile and rude. She initially objected to me doing this at all but I said "I'm a full Skyclub member, I am entiteld to two guests". She then infromed me she'd "make an exception" but told me in a manner as condescending as possible "don't do this again". I said the membership guide does not say I have to know the guests, just that they have to stay with me and leave when I do. She then infromed me if I did this again, my membership would be revoked.
By this point, the two women I tried to help said "we're leaving, we won't do business with a place who talks to you (meaning me) this way". They then thanked me and left. I also left. I am now at the F Concourse Skyclub and I asked the agent here about it and she said Delta considers what I did solicitiation. I said for it to be solicitation, didn't there have to be some comepensation changing hands? She informed me "management" had told them to stop anyone from doing this. This is certainly news to me and I rechecked the T&Cs and it doesn't seem to prohibit this. I wrote Delta an email, especially over the horribly rude way I was talked to and we'll see what they say.
Naturally, I put it here too...what say you?
Nov 17, 2012, 3:03 pm
#2
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Here's another post from 4 days ago - - Same thing at MSP
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...-sky-club.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...-sky-club.html
Nov 17, 2012, 3:04 pm
#3
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There is no reason for the Sky Club agent to behave like this. I can understand Delta's concerns with overcrowded clubs, but then again you are entitled to bring 2 guests. I Delta wants to address the situation then they can change the Sky Club rules such that the 2 passengers have to be travelling with you on the same flight or something similar. Let's see what Delta's official response will be.
Nov 17, 2012, 3:29 pm
#5
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I don't think that policy envisions *everyone* bringing in two guests every time, especially if it means rounding up strangers to be "guests."
Nov 17, 2012, 3:35 pm
#6
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If Delta is worried about overcrowding the last people they should look to are those of us who pay for a full membership. The rules state we are allowed to bring two guests. Nothing else is mentioned regarding our relationship to the guests. I have never been questioned by the Skyclub employees about the guests I bring and if I ever were I would politely remind them that it is none of their business.
Nov 17, 2012, 3:57 pm
#8
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Oh and for the record the club was NOT crowded at the time.
Nov 17, 2012, 4:19 pm
#10
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A few thoughts on this situation and then a recent experience that I had in SLC sky club a few weeks ago.
First: why did you feel the need to be so generous and offer your guest spots? Dd the two ladies strike you as if they had suffered a particular hardship? Did you think the SC agent was improperly denying them SC access (yes it does happen?)
That aside...
Two random people ahead of you in the queue are not your guests. They are random strangers. Guests are people you know who are traveling with you or are ppl you know in the airport at same time as you. Even if they're on a different PNR, flight, airline, etc "guest" implies you know each other (even an acquaintance you met on an earlier flight to me is OK).
But you invited two complete strangers into the club that you had never met before. That's not a guest. Sorry.
Perhaps the explicit T&C of the full SC membership you have does not clearly state this but the spirit of the rules is quite clear and understood by any reasoned traveller, no?
And let's say you had gotten them in. Were you planning on spending every moment with them and policing their behavior (remember that members are responsible for all behaviors of their guests.) and when you boarded your flight were you planning to ensure they left the SC with you?
You're argument about how DL can avoid over crowding at the SC is a strawman argument. So. No. Doesn't work.
2 weeks ago I was approaching SLC club and I noticed a middle aged couple trolling the entrance of the SC. They explicitly asked me if I could guest them into the club. I said no sorry I can't. The guy immediately rubbed his fingers offering $$. I said no sorry and entered the club. So yes. I could see how DL would consider guesting strangers solicitation and I'm glad they played interference with your situation. After the SC agent welcomed me to the club I told him about the soliciting couple outside. He walked outside and asked them to clear away from the entrance doors or he was going to call security. Good job!!
First: why did you feel the need to be so generous and offer your guest spots? Dd the two ladies strike you as if they had suffered a particular hardship? Did you think the SC agent was improperly denying them SC access (yes it does happen?)
That aside...
Two random people ahead of you in the queue are not your guests. They are random strangers. Guests are people you know who are traveling with you or are ppl you know in the airport at same time as you. Even if they're on a different PNR, flight, airline, etc "guest" implies you know each other (even an acquaintance you met on an earlier flight to me is OK).
But you invited two complete strangers into the club that you had never met before. That's not a guest. Sorry.
Perhaps the explicit T&C of the full SC membership you have does not clearly state this but the spirit of the rules is quite clear and understood by any reasoned traveller, no?
And let's say you had gotten them in. Were you planning on spending every moment with them and policing their behavior (remember that members are responsible for all behaviors of their guests.) and when you boarded your flight were you planning to ensure they left the SC with you?
You're argument about how DL can avoid over crowding at the SC is a strawman argument. So. No. Doesn't work.
2 weeks ago I was approaching SLC club and I noticed a middle aged couple trolling the entrance of the SC. They explicitly asked me if I could guest them into the club. I said no sorry I can't. The guy immediately rubbed his fingers offering $$. I said no sorry and entered the club. So yes. I could see how DL would consider guesting strangers solicitation and I'm glad they played interference with your situation. After the SC agent welcomed me to the club I told him about the soliciting couple outside. He walked outside and asked them to clear away from the entrance doors or he was going to call security. Good job!!
Nov 17, 2012, 4:27 pm
#11
Join Date: Nov 2011
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A few thoughts on this situation and then a recent experience that I had in SLC sky club a few weeks ago.
First: why did you feel the need to be so generous and offer your guest spots? Dd the two ladies strike you as if they had suffered a particular hardship? Did you think the SC agent was improperly denying them SC access (yes it does happen?)
That aside...
Two random people ahead of you in the queue are not your guests. They are random strangers. Guests are people you know who are traveling with you or are ppl you know in the airport at same time as you. Even if they're on a different PNR, flight, airline, etc "guest" implies you know each other (even an acquaintance you met on an earlier flight to me is OK).
But you invited two complete strangers into the club that you had never met before. That's not a guest. Sorry.
Perhaps the explicit T&C of the full SC membership you have does not clearly state this but the spirit of the rules is quite clear and understood by any reasoned traveller, no?
And let's say you had gotten them in. Were you planning on spending every moment with them and policing their behavior (remember that members are responsible for all behaviors of their guests.) and when you boarded your flight were you planning to ensure they left the SC with you?
You're argument about how DL can avoid over crowding at the SC is a strawman argument. So. No. Doesn't work.
2 weeks ago I was approaching SLC club and I noticed a middle aged couple trolling the entrance of the SC. They explicitly asked me if I could guest them into the club. I said no sorry I can't. The guy immediately rubbed his fingers offering $$. I said no sorry and entered the club. So yes. I could see how DL would consider guesting strangers solicitation and I'm glad they played interference with your situation. After the SC agent welcomed me to the club I told him about the soliciting couple outside. He walked outside and asked them to clear away from the entrance doors or he was going to call security. Good job!!
First: why did you feel the need to be so generous and offer your guest spots? Dd the two ladies strike you as if they had suffered a particular hardship? Did you think the SC agent was improperly denying them SC access (yes it does happen?)
That aside...
Two random people ahead of you in the queue are not your guests. They are random strangers. Guests are people you know who are traveling with you or are ppl you know in the airport at same time as you. Even if they're on a different PNR, flight, airline, etc "guest" implies you know each other (even an acquaintance you met on an earlier flight to me is OK).
But you invited two complete strangers into the club that you had never met before. That's not a guest. Sorry.
Perhaps the explicit T&C of the full SC membership you have does not clearly state this but the spirit of the rules is quite clear and understood by any reasoned traveller, no?
And let's say you had gotten them in. Were you planning on spending every moment with them and policing their behavior (remember that members are responsible for all behaviors of their guests.) and when you boarded your flight were you planning to ensure they left the SC with you?
You're argument about how DL can avoid over crowding at the SC is a strawman argument. So. No. Doesn't work.
2 weeks ago I was approaching SLC club and I noticed a middle aged couple trolling the entrance of the SC. They explicitly asked me if I could guest them into the club. I said no sorry I can't. The guy immediately rubbed his fingers offering $$. I said no sorry and entered the club. So yes. I could see how DL would consider guesting strangers solicitation and I'm glad they played interference with your situation. After the SC agent welcomed me to the club I told him about the soliciting couple outside. He walked outside and asked them to clear away from the entrance doors or he was going to call security. Good job!!
Nov 17, 2012, 4:28 pm
#12
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Here is how I would have handled. "Sir, we have recently had communication from DL who considers that inviting random strangers in to the SC is considered solicitation. I will let you and your two guests in this time, but may I suggest it might be worth you dropping a quick line/email to DL Skyclub management and requesting clarification on this matter. Oh and by the way Sir, thank you for being a Skyclub member".
Last edited by GRALISTAIR; Nov 17, 2012 at 4:40 pm
Nov 17, 2012, 4:39 pm
#13
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Two random people ahead of you in the queue are not your guests. They are random strangers. Guests are people you know who are traveling with you or are ppl you know in the airport at same time as you. Even if they're on a different PNR, flight, airline, etc "guest" implies you know each other (even an acquaintance you met on an earlier flight to me is OK).
Nov 17, 2012, 4:41 pm
#14
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A few thoughts on this situation and then a recent experience that I had in SLC sky club a few weeks ago.
First: why did you feel the need to be so generous and offer your guest spots? Dd the two ladies strike you as if they had suffered a particular hardship? Did you think the SC agent was improperly denying them SC access (yes it does happen?)
Not to be snarky but, why not? Inspiration struck me. I overheard some of their conversation and they said they were on a mission trip and would only be there a half hour. Seemed like a nice gesture.
That aside...
Two random people ahead of you in the queue are not your guests. They are random strangers. Guests are people you know who are traveling with you or are ppl you know in the airport at same time as you. Even if they're on a different PNR, flight, airline, etc "guest" implies you know each other (even an acquaintance you met on an earlier flight to me is OK).
Guest does not imply anything. Hotels call me a guest don't they? In fact, if I search the definition of guest I find:
1. a person who spends some time at another person's home in some social activity, as a visit, dinner, or party.
2. a person who receives the hospitality of a club, a city, or the like.
3. a person who patronizes a hotel, restaurant, etc., for the lodging, food, or entertainment it provides.
4. an often well-known person invited to participate or perform in a regular program, series, etc., as a substitute for a regular member or as a special attraction.
But you invited two complete strangers into the club that you had never met before. That's not a guest. Sorry.
See above
Perhaps the explicit T&C of the full SC membership you have does not clearly state this but the spirit of the rules is quite clear and understood by any reasoned traveller, no?
I don't think it's understood at all or quite clear. There are numerous cases of Flyertalkers guesting in people they meet just as I did.
And let's say you had gotten them in. Were you planning on spending every moment with them and policing their behavior (remember that members are responsible for all behaviors of their guests.) and when you boarded your flight were you planning to ensure they left the SC with you?
I had a three hour layover on a solo trip, I'd have been glad to sit with them and chat if they wanted or just read my book in view of them. Furthermore, I am now at the B concourse as my flight leaves from here. Leaving when they did would have been no issue.
You're argument about how DL can avoid over crowding at the SC is a strawman argument. So. No. Doesn't work.
I made no argument about this, see above
First: why did you feel the need to be so generous and offer your guest spots? Dd the two ladies strike you as if they had suffered a particular hardship? Did you think the SC agent was improperly denying them SC access (yes it does happen?)
Not to be snarky but, why not? Inspiration struck me. I overheard some of their conversation and they said they were on a mission trip and would only be there a half hour. Seemed like a nice gesture.
That aside...
Two random people ahead of you in the queue are not your guests. They are random strangers. Guests are people you know who are traveling with you or are ppl you know in the airport at same time as you. Even if they're on a different PNR, flight, airline, etc "guest" implies you know each other (even an acquaintance you met on an earlier flight to me is OK).
Guest does not imply anything. Hotels call me a guest don't they? In fact, if I search the definition of guest I find:
1. a person who spends some time at another person's home in some social activity, as a visit, dinner, or party.
2. a person who receives the hospitality of a club, a city, or the like.
3. a person who patronizes a hotel, restaurant, etc., for the lodging, food, or entertainment it provides.
4. an often well-known person invited to participate or perform in a regular program, series, etc., as a substitute for a regular member or as a special attraction.
But you invited two complete strangers into the club that you had never met before. That's not a guest. Sorry.
See above
Perhaps the explicit T&C of the full SC membership you have does not clearly state this but the spirit of the rules is quite clear and understood by any reasoned traveller, no?
I don't think it's understood at all or quite clear. There are numerous cases of Flyertalkers guesting in people they meet just as I did.
And let's say you had gotten them in. Were you planning on spending every moment with them and policing their behavior (remember that members are responsible for all behaviors of their guests.) and when you boarded your flight were you planning to ensure they left the SC with you?
I had a three hour layover on a solo trip, I'd have been glad to sit with them and chat if they wanted or just read my book in view of them. Furthermore, I am now at the B concourse as my flight leaves from here. Leaving when they did would have been no issue.
You're argument about how DL can avoid over crowding at the SC is a strawman argument. So. No. Doesn't work.
I made no argument about this, see above
Nov 17, 2012, 4:44 pm
#15
Join Date: May 2009
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I'm somewhere in between on this one. I will occasionally invite military personnel in uniform in for a drink (used to buy them drinks/dinner when I saw them in the concourse, but now that I rarely spend any time out there, this is my alternative), and I hope to continue to do this through the holidays.... I hope this DL directive doesn't change my ability to do this...