myfrogger

First. I am not a new member. I have searched--read the posts but they seem to be more of a debate about how things should be done...now what the contractual contract of carriage or CO policies state. I'm not a first time flyer. I have switched jobs and have not flown much in about two years. I was an almost exclusive American Airlines flyer and flew ~60-80,000 miles per year for a few years.

That being said, I flew Continental for the first time...in coach. ORD-IAH-SAL, MGA-IAH-ORD. With the first three legs of the trip I was extremely impressed compared to AA!

• I felt I had an extra 1-1.5" of legroom which made a huge difference to me.
• I was served food on the flight! This is unheard of when I was flying AA in coach.
• Aircraft were newer and nicer than AA's MD-83s
• Business/First class seats were not much more money at all. Only a few hundred dollars difference so I might consider actually paying for that in the future. With AA I always played the upgrade game.
• CO allowed non-elites to book the exit row and I got it on 3 out of my 4 flights.

Anyway, my situtation...The flight is 100% full. I have seat 14D, the rear exit window. CO seems to board from the rear of the plane. 20+, then 15+, then everyone else. Obviously sitting in row 14 means I board almost last.

When I boarded, there was absolutely no overhead bin space. About 15-20 pax were required to check their bags. By watching people I wondered why people were carrying on so many bags. There were many people with 2 bags plus a personal item. CO agents did not stop this nor did they care that they complied with the size restriction. Many roller bags were forced to go in sideways and took up the space of two regulation sized bags.

I always travel light--this trip was the lightest trip ever. I only had a large bookbag-style backpack as I was traveling on pleasure exploring central America.

CO agents told me:

1. They would have to check my luggage
2. Actually be checked on the next flight so I would have to wait ~90 minutes at ORD for my luggage
3. CO would then not be responsible for my laptop, electronics, medications, etc because it was checked baggage.

I got upset and walked off the plane along with a couple other customers. I demanded to speak to managers, going 3 up the chain. The first two were extremely indifferent only telling me that they wished they had a margarita machine so they can cope with difficult customers. They only rebooked me on the next flight to ORD approx 90 minutes later.

As far as I am concerned, I have a contractual right not to mention TSA regulations to travel with my luggage. I also believe I have the contractual right in the contract of carriage to carry on a piece of luggage. All of the extra non-allowed carry on luggage should have been denied.

So my questions are:

1. Was I correct to be upset about the situation?
2. Is this an involuntary denied boarding situation? Why or why not?
3. What should CO do from a contractual point of view to make things right? (They claim the IAH-ORD portion of my ticket was only $99.38--a fraction of what I paid total)
4. What should CO do from a customer service standpoint to make things right with me?

Thank you all and I am glad to be flying again. I hope to run into more FTers in the near future!

Awtas

As I don't have the answers to your questions (except the first one. Yes, you should be upset.), I'd like to mention that this is the problem.
Being a Plat this doesn't impact me that much but sometimes it upsets me, that lots of elites do not care about other passengers.
I've noticed the same:
1. Some people take too many bags on board.
2. Some people next to their bag decide to put their coat or jacket into overhead (taking same amount of space as the bag). And of course close the bin so everyone thinks that it's full.
3. Some people seated in the back, MUST put their stuff in the front of the cabin, forcing people that are seated in the front put their bags in the back of the cabin. At the arrival front passengers are trying to get to the back of the plane, and guys from the back are rushing to the front.

I definitely think that there's a lot of space for improvement.

For the denied boarding, I believe that yes, it was a denied boarding, because you weren't allowed to have on board luggage that, based on the rules, you were suppose to be allowed. unless there's a small print.

sbm12

No, you don't.

I think that CO was wrong for not getting it on to the same flight you were on but otherwise such is life. You don't always get overhead space if you get on at the end of boarding.

Also, the in-flight meals are going away later this year and as of yesterday you'll have to pay for those exit row seats. How do you like them apples?

SFO777

I doubt that many others will agree that CO Y has more room than anyone.
And there is no way, unless you were in an exit row or bulkhead, that you had more legroom than on an AA MD-80.
From seatguru.com, CO's standard Y seat is 17.2" wide and 31" pitch. AA's standard MD-80 Y seat is 18" wide with 31-33" pitch.

For future travels, ask CO for a status match, if for nothing more than being among the first to board, plus the occasional lucky UG.

SeamusSA

What contractual agreement with the air carrier gives you the right to carry on your luggage? And you do not have a contract at all with TSA.
AFAIK overhead space is first come, first served and despite what many would like to believe the space directly above an assigned seat is not reserved for the pax occupying that seat. (The space under the seat in front of you is another matter.)
I do not usually have to deal with this as I get to board early thanks to elite status. But on some tight connections, even with status I am among the last to board and have to hunt for overhead space. Since all overheads are fair game, I have no compunction about rearranging a bag placed in a way that is not space efficient (e.g., stowed longways but will fit OK when turned) though before moving a bag to another nearby bin I always ask the owner if it is alright to do so. Most are just fine with that, though there is the occasional arsehole who grumbles (in which case I enlist the assistance of the FA.)
All that said, I do wish GA's would enforce the rules.

belynch

The OP's issue is with their fellow passengers and not CO. Everyone that put their laptop bag/jacket/purse in the overhead was to blame. Everyone who brought a carry-on that doesn't fit length-wise in the bin was to blame.

It's simple, there is a physical limitation on space on aircraft and on full flights that space is almost always exceeded.

If everyone brought on a reasonable amount of carry-on on-board, and actually utilized the space in front of their seat this would be less of an issue. But they don't. I've had to check my 'carry-on' bag on a handful of occasions and accept this as a part of flying today. No matter what carrier I'm on.

The only way this problem will be solved is when the carriers divvy up the overhead space and allocate it per seat. If you're in 14D then your stuff must fit in the space allocated to 14D. If it doesn't, it gets checked.

That will never happen though, because the standard roll-aboard exceeds the proportional allotment of space.

And no, your bag doesn't have to fly with you. If that were the case you'd never get it back if the airlines lost it.

myfrogger

Thank you all for your input and replies. This is a good discussion.

My issue is with CO and not so much the passengers because:

• CO Policy and Procedures Manual states that "flight attendants are to be dispersed throughout the cabin(s) assisting customers with luggage."
• FAA manual states that "a flight attendant is designated to monitor compliance with baggage stowage Federal Aviation Requirements"
• Federal Avaiation Requirements allow for one carry on bag plus one person item.
• because of this CO should followed the rules have denied the carry on of baggage exceeding this FAA requirement

The relevant law controlling passenger carry-on baggage is found in Title 14 of the US Code of Federal Regulations, (Aeronautics and Space PART 121—OPERATING REQUIREMENTS: DOMESTIC, FLAG, AND SUPPLEMENTAL OPERATIONS
Subpart T—Flight Operations
§ 121.589 Carry-on baggage.

(PS--I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on the internet. Just seeking advice from fellow travelers)

Bonehead

I'm surprised that your "bookbag-style" carryon didn't fit under your seat (or were you intercepted as you boarded?). I've managed to stuff some fairly large (but malleable) carryons under my seat when space in the overheads was running low. If it was stuffed to the gills and therefore incompressible, I can understand.

By the way, when I book non-elite friends, I make sure that I seat them in row 20 or higher for this very reason...playing the sub-row-15 carryon game as a non-elite is clearly fraught with extreme peril.

myfrogger

It was intercepted while boarding along with another 15 or so pax.

Bonehead

Brutal. On many of my flights I've observed the FAs running around like crazy rearranging the overheads, getting coats, hats, small rodents, etc. out of them, and pointing out to each other where there's additional space. Sounds like either 1) your flight was really nasty w/r/t carryons, or 2) you had an EWR-based crew.

Oh, come on, just sorta kidding.

freeflyin

I disagree. The GA's could end all this by simply stopping anyone from boarding with more than 1 carryon and a personal item,and charge them for the extra bags on the spot.The rule is in place-just enforce it consistently. After a few times of being slowed down by gate checking the kitchen sink,passengers would hopefully start to comply on their own.

It should not be left to the FAs to monitor bags,as once they are on board and stowed it is difficult to handle the situation.

belynch

Then the flight would be canceled because it would be delayed by more than three hours...

It all comes back to the pax though. If you'd like some references I can hyperlink to some threads here on FT. "7A" comes to mind.

Pick your .

IAHtraveler

I fully agree with this! When on EasyJet, if you tried to get on with too much baggage (or a bag that was too big by their standards), you had to check it at the gate, paying the standard "checked bag" fee PLUS an extra fee for checking it at the gate instead of the ticket counter.

As for the original question #4 "What should CO do from a customer service standpoint to make things right with me?" (emphasis mine): I'll answer a different question: Even if CO did something wrong, they won't do anything, whether or not they should. (My most recent example is when I was denied a companion upgrade & 4 seats in F were sent empty, per the PDA site. Then friends of the FA's sat in those seats. CO admitted they were wrong, but refused to do anything to make it up to me).

sfogate

FAs don't monitor bags, they monitor how full the bins are and advise when to start gate checking carry-ons.

The place to check the size and quantity of bags is at the security check point. At this point the customer has the opportunity to check in the over sized bag by returning to the ticket counter.

The GAs don't have the time to double check each bag that is carried on by a customer, at the boarding door. Nor do they have time to argue and collect money to check the bag in.

Ask yourself: does my bag comply with the 22" rule? Do I place my laptop underneath the seat in front of me? If you said yes to both questions, you are a minority and I thank you.

belynch

Were they not standing in the cabin assisting passengers during the boarding process? I wasn't there, but I know the answer is, yes, they were.

They check to make sure carry-ons are stowed and secured properly. I'm sure they all were.

GA's are generally pretty good about enforcing this when someone obviously has an oversized bag or too many. Bins get filled quickly, it's a simple issue of physics.

And you're confident they didn't?

Your only issue with CO is that they didn't buy a bigger plane from Boeing.