moondog

I've been planning on saying something somewhat useful for my 20,000th post in this forum for a while. Since this is the weekend, and I have free time, I'm coming in a few posts early. Following is my story/insights:

1) I selected Chinese as my foreign language option when I enrolled at Exeter during the late 80s. The class constantly dragged down my GPA because most of my classmates could already read or speak the language... but I rode things out because I was a trooper.

2) During the summer and fall of 1995, I went to China with Duke University. I must admit that not a great deal of studying took place during this stint (old content and dense teachers), but I learned how to order foods that I liked, negotiate for goods in the fake markets, and talk to girls.

3) After a brief stint in the Silicon Valley, I started doing VC/PE in China. Most of the deals were complete BS, and my bosses found this out the hard way (dd is pretty important in these parts).

4) July 13, 2001 is the single coolest day I've experienced in China. This is when Beijing was awarded the 2008 Olympics. The entire country was elated to the nth degree. Seven of my Palo Alto friends were with me at the time, and they were simply blown away. From that day on, China was no longer a socially conservative country (yes, I really can nail it to this precise date).

5) I've been to 55 cities in China, but must say that the big guys are where you want to live. As many of you know, we have an office in Nanning, and I have to go there once per month; I simply loathe the experience.

6) I see NO value in organized tours unless you are going to places where people have guns that they are willing to use against you (e.g. remote parts of Xinjiang). The, "oh, but I don't speak Chinese" excuse doesn't work for me. If you have a brain, you can make things happen.

7) During customer service interactions, be sensitive and don't over ask. For example, if you find yourself in CA's Lanzhou ticket office, and end up interacting with a 22 year old employee, don't even mention the car service for your PEK-LHR flight.

8) Be adventurous, guys! As much as I dislike second tier cities, most are well worth visiting for a day or two. (I'm particularly fond of Changsha.)

9) Wechat/Momo -- If you don't have Wechat, you might as well not exist. Momo is also kind of interesting for the unattached.

mosburger

Interesting and thanks to lao moondog for countless very, very informative posts on the Middle Kingdom and patience in dealing with us China newcomers.

My education was geared towards a life and career in Japan but somehow I ended up on these shores too, via Korea...At least useful to see how deeply Chinese culture has influenced the whole of Asia in thinking and customs.

As for VC/PE, I have heard of a few "take the money and run" cases also over in Korea. Due diligence should include a "gut feeling" personality check, IMHO...

FT is an amazing resource, and I personally have learned a lot on this board since arriving to work in China back in 2006. To a great extent thanks to moondog

Equally amazing has been watching the Middle Kingdom develop and it remains to be seen what surprises the future may bring.

sl00001

Wechat has brought me lots of excitement in China and ...also outside of the motherland

JPDM

"My down low on this country" - sounds more like the lowdown on Moondog.

moondog

Touché, but I did disclose such up front. Furthermore, the intent is to inspire discussion about broader topics (e.g. the visa talk is getting a bit old; we could replace ourselves with a robot for this).

tentseller

Total agreement on point number 4.

BuildingMyBento

Up 'til now, my three favorites are Xi'an, Wuhan and...Dongguan. The former two are laid-back, and the latter has some of my favorite restaurants in my usual stomping ground (Guangdong), albeit in a less-than-ideal district (Liaobu). The South China Mall is a diversion and all of the 喇叭 installed in Dongguan's buses are amusingly sonorous. I'm still waiting for an announcement about the opening of the Dongguan-Huizhou light rail line, because I've found some good food by the shore of Dayawan too.

Surprisingly, a few people that I met on my latest trek through Wuhan and Hunan asked me about my MSN ID. Wechat wasn't possible because the number I bought off the street was already taken.

moondog

Important Wechat tip: registering with a NON-Chinese phone number gets you access to ALL official accounts, including those not that haven't put Chinese people/companies on the line for the content that they disseminate. Google phone numbers work fine for this purpose. You can have more than one Wechat account on your phone.

hawklx

I very well remember the year 2001, not only because we were awarded the Olympics, but also the men's team qualified for the World Cup for the first time (and sadly probably the last time unless something drastic happens in the next decade or so). The country was in ascendancy, both economically and socially. People were genuinely looking forward to the future.

There have been a lot of positives: astonishing amount of new apartments, skyscrapers, roads, and HSRs are built; the middle class are established, people have more money to spend and can afford a lot of things they simply couldn't before...

Unfortunately since then the wealth disparity has shot up over the roof; the worsening environment is making it more and more unbearable to live; the food scandals reported are just a tip of an iceberg; and astronomical housing prices alone has killed off many young people's dreams and passions - you simply cannot afford to have other priorities...It's no longer possible to climb up the social ladder without guanxi, unlike in the 80s and 90s. Corruption has become so rampant that people have simply accepted it as part of life.

Critically the economy model didn't really change much - cheap labour, mass investment, government connections, and BS. Without meaningful reform in the near future, I wonder where the country is heading towards.

moondog

I'm inclined to disagree with the "guanxi is a prerequisite for success" principle.

Following are companies I know of that hit it big without relying on connections:

-Focus Media
-Ctrip
-大众点评
-meituan
-Xiaomi
-Element Fresh

Naturally, there are 10x more counter examples, including BAT, Soho, Wanda, Kerry, etc, but my point is to show that it's possible to shine without help from Beijing.

On a smaller scale, I've learned that anyone with a decent market feel and a good idea can generate serious coin. This can be as simple as opportunistically selling camera equipment on Amazon sites around the world (a former employee of ours is doing this business now).

Even our Nanning people are reaping great rewards because they know China and our clients are willing to pay top dollar for this (the clients are certainly not going to find the same in New York or even Shanghai).

We honestly have trouble hiring and retaining the best and the brightest, simply because the best and the brightest can make a killing if they focus on their own things.

In short, China is the largest consumer market in the world, but is still wrought with inefficiencies... most of which have money behind them that is waiting to be unlocked.

Taipei

Yes, thanks for the useful posts with all the good info! Also interesting to know Exeter (NH one I guess) had Chinese as an option back then.

HMPS

Moondog I took your advice about a year ago. Gave up on using organized tours ( expensive and canned) and we ventured on our own. This allowed me to see more places and have experiences such as the bullet trains.

Being vegetarians posed problems but stuck to chain hotels where available. For small places had my local ORD Chinese restaurant write out. "No MEAT, CHICKEN, PORK, FISH, VEGETABLES and TOFU OK". It worked.

My wife was tense due to lack of language in case of a medical emergency.

Want to go back, do some more explorations and finish with bullet train to Lhasa and Base Camp One !

moondog

Here is some more food for thought. (I'm ditching the numbered list format because I don't want to dissuade others from adding to the conversation.)

-In Beijing until around 2000, foreigners could only live in foreigner approved housing, which was really expensive (even in today's dollars). So, it was common practice to ask a Chinese person to sign a lease and live under him/her. I was living in such a place in 1998. On a morning 2 days before the gaokao, I was awoken by no less than 10 police officers. They told me that I needed to leave. I explained that my friend was still sleeping and wasn't planning on waking up until 9:30. The police were very nice about everything (they didn't bother my sleeping friend, and they helped me pack our things). We moved to the Jingguang 4 hours later.

-Goose and Duck Summer Jam was pretty damn impressive (I think it was 2006). It was sort of like Vic's when Vic's was still cool, but in a big swimming pool near Mutianyu.

-In 1995, the train from Nanjing to Shanghai took 4 hours, but we still made the journey almost every weekend. We stayed at the Pujiang Hotel (now called the Astor House) for y50/person, partied at New York, New York (closed circa 2000), and brunched at the Portman (Shangri-La at the time).

-I've had the opportunity to see a handful of ghost cities, and have been pitched on 10x as many insanely stupid property concepts (e.g. let's clone Venice in Nanning!). We had a pretty sold plan to make Epoch City (halfway between Beijing and Tianjian) into something interesting in 2008, but the Lehman bk killed these dreams.

-I witnessed a near murder on Guanghua Road in 07 or 08. I posted it about it here shortly after the fact, but I'm sure the thread has been archived by now. At that point in time, I already knew that China can be a violent place, but it had yet to occur to me just how dangerous migrant workers with big knives could be. To a lesser extent, the same goes for the Dongbei guys who come to Beijing in order to find ladies. When push comes to shove, standing down is the only way to play it. (The police will be of minimal help; just leave after telling them about the situation.)

-Although I've gotten much better over the years, losing phones and wallets is a fact of life. This usually happens in taxis, but pick pockets are also common in certain areas (e.g. Peoples Square in SH when transferring between Line 1 and Line 2). The cell phone thing is pretty easy to recover from (yes, you're going to drop $500+, but you probably needed a new phone anyway). The wallet is also no big deal as long as you leave half of your cards at home, and don't walk around with 10k+ (my wallet can't fit more than 25 bills without looking silly).

-Being resourceful is key. A natural instinct for visitors to foreign lands is to assume that the locals know more than you. This is not always the case. If you are at the St. Regis and want to meet someone at Centro for happy hour, it's up to YOU to make it happen.

-Lastly, I feel compelled to talk about tour guides again. They simply aren't needed for Beijing or Shanghai, but those of you who absolutely insist should consider going the Starbucks route. That girl who is reading the thick English novel: 1) speaks English; 2) has tons of spare time; and 3) understands history every bit as well as the guides who offer services on TA.

moondog

NH is correct. In spite of the constant B- grades, I stuck with the Chinese class because my teacher always treated me like family. She spent an entire week deciding on a Chinese name for me: 司恩德. To this day, that name still never fails to impress (e.g. I often receive phone calls about its remarkable fengshui score).

Hoyaheel

Apparently I chose the wrong languages when I was in prep school in the late 80s - French & Russian, though French was fun studying at university in Belgium when I was in college I'm just glad to have the chance to start exploring Asia a little bit now in my career, and I know this board has given me lots of advice for the few trips I've made. Being in research and not "business" means I don't necessarily understand or follow many of the things you write about, but I always love to learn!