chollie

AskTSA, the Amy Van Dyken string of tweets. Another individual tweets she's had problems with invasive groping.

AskTSA's response? Ask for a supervisor.

Amy Van Dyken did ask for a supervisor. It was STSO <redacted by moderator> who told her what the rules were at 'his' checkpoint when he is working - according to him, the only place in the country where wheelchair-bound Pre pax are 'handled' correctly.

I still have a lot of questions. How many other wheelchair-bound Pre pax were forced to undergo an unnecessary groping (against policy) by STSO Rogers? Didn't a single TSO or LTSO or STSO observe what was going on and ask if the protocols had changed? Did none of the TSOs notice that other STSOs followed a different protocol? Did no one say "that's not what I was taught in training?"

Where was the FSD in all this? Does he have a clue what happens in his airport? I would have thought that the episode where two of his TSOs colluded to game the NoS so one of them could sexually assault male pax would have led the FSD to take a closer look at what his people are up to. Now he really looks like a complete AWOL clown.

I'm beginning to wonder if there's a subversive robot deliberately undermining TSA in its responses.

TWA884

The FlyerTalk Rules do not permit the posting of names or contact information of travel companies and programs employees unless they hold executive management status (e.g. presidents, vice-presidents, managing directors, administrators, etc.).

This holds true even if you saw the information elsewhere on the internet.

Posts have been edited or redacted.

Please consider this to be your only warning. Repeat violators will be suspended.

Thank you,

TWA884
Co-moderator, Travel Safety/Security

gingersnaps

Not sure an Olympian should be considered a "hero", running, swimming, archery, kind of demean the acts of heroism by those who act without regard to life of self.

Anyways, She got was she wanted. Can we surmise from TSA response that going through Precheck in a wheelchair and bypassing the metal detector and AIT means you are subject to a patdown?

jkhuggins

To "lie" would imply that the STSO knew the proper procedure and deliberately chose to violate it. I see no evidence of this here.

I find it much more likely that --- yes, despite all of his training --- he thought he knew the proper procedure and was following it. Hanlon's Law applies.

That doesn't excuse his actions in any way. His actions were in violation of TSA policy, and he should be subject to sanctions as a result.

But ascribing motive just distracts from the core issue.

gingersnaps

Hanlon's Law ""never assume bad intentions when assuming stupidity is enough"

chollie

Swab the pax's body and chair and examine the chair itself.

This has always been the slightly awkward thing about Pre. OTOH, we're assured that every pax is fully screened, Pre or not.
.
But we're also told that laptops and shoes (the ones you are wearing, not the ones in your carry-on) can not be thoroughly screened unless they are separated from everything else and x-rayed.

Obviously, Pre bags and pax aren't as thoroughly screened (by TSA's stated standards) as non-Pre bags and pax if they aren't pulled out/taken off and x-rayed separately.

That's the whole point of a TT program, although no one wants to say it.

A handicapped pax who has Pre shouldn't be forced to go through the same level of screening as a non-Pre pax. That defeats the whole point of TT.

Had this been a 'random' secondary, that would have been different, but it was not.

chollie

I disagree, based on the preponderance of evidence.

Van Dyken lives in CO. She says they fly, on average, once or twice a week year round. She's flown out of DEN plenty of times, as well as other airports when she returns home. She's never encountered this before, at DEN or any other airport.

Did she just happen to only fly out of DEN when the STSO wasn't working or was working at different checkpoint? Possible. Did the STSO never happen to notice other TSOs processing wheelchair-bound pax in a different way?

If I am going to give the STSO the benefit of the doubt, I would say that he is too ignorant and oblivious to his surroundings to be a TSO, let alone an STSO. This is the guy who TSOs and pax are supposed to go to for answers. Since he has no other assigned duties beyond playing with his cellphone and chatting with his buds, I don't think it's asking too much for him to know the rules.

Of course, ultimately the blame also attaches to any of his co-workers and his AWOL supervisors who either failed to observe his misconduct or chose to ignore it. Blame to the manager or whoever promoted or hired this guy to do a job he is not qualified to do.

Someone I know says it's clear that this was the FSD's doing (those pesky red team tests and MSP's failure) and the STSO is wisely taking the fall.

Boggie Dog

Not sure I can agree with you on this one.

A STSO (3 Striper)is presumed to know all of the Checkpoint Rules and Regulations. If the STSO does not know the rules then there are far bigger problems with management at DEN than this one person presents.

I will presume that having advanced from TSO to LTSO and then STSO that this person was fully trained and vetted, knew the rules, and not only lied about the rules but improperly performed the duties of a TSA employee.

Termination is the only path forward in this case.

petaluma1

You are being far too generous. This guy knew the proper procedure and chose not to follow it, for whatever bizarre reason. Perhaps he felt "his" way was better than the TSA's.

jkhuggins

What evidence do we have that the STSO knew the proper procedure? (His rank is not evidence. People get promoted all the time without knowing what they're doing.)

And that is exactly my point. The STSO's failure to know the rules in this situation is objectively verifiable, and a huge problem. Raking DEN's management over the coals for this would be far more effective, IMHO, than targeting one individual's motives.

Boggie Dog

I agree that we don't know if the STSO knew SOP, nor do we know if management gave improper supervision. But we do know that there is an expectation for the STSO to be expert in checkpoint SOP which is the violation in this case. How his failure came about does not mitigate the failure although a complete review of training and senior supervision should be conducted.

The problem could be limited to this one person or could extend up the chain potentionally implicating the entire TSA managerial methods and training system.

No matter how its sliced the STSO failed his appointed duties and should be terminated.

jkhuggins

Exactly. Whether or not he "lied" is irrelevant. Judge him on his actions.

petaluma1

Ms. Van Dyken is now saying on her Twitter feed that she was not upset by the pat down but rather how she was spoken to by the STSO. That is contrary to her initial Instagram comment as well as her initial AskTSA comment.

Do the checkpoint vids now have audio? If not, what did the FSD see that caused him to immediately say his screener(s) were wrong and would be "retrained?"

chollie

I had the impression right from the beginning that the STSO's attitude and effectively calling her a liar upset her even more than the unnecessary rough grope. If he had simply told her it was a 'random', she might only have commented on the clumsy rough probing of intimate places. His completely unnecessary arrogance and cockiness and nasty mouth are what really got him in trouble. He must be a real delight to work for.

Her original tweets seemed pretty clear: he told her every other airport, including DEN, had screened her incorrectly. That's a pretty big charge to make - it basically slams the entire agency, including DEN TSA, for a shockingly widespread hole in security. She was being insulted and IIRC, her last tweet at the time was a promise to follow-up to see if everyone at TSA really had been doing things wrong.

gingersnaps

She is quoted as saying "I was told if I pay I don't have too..." (will look for the full quote).

She was complaining because she got a patdown. That is why she talked about being grabbed, and her breasts.

She was convinced that because "she paid" she was exempt from patdowns.

She made a specticle and got attention for it. She is trying to backtrack now.