EU Parliament Approves Collecting Air Passenger Data [Updated]
Apr 14, 2016, 12:25 pm
#46
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-fighters.html
They want the mass surveillance measure via PNRs to be applicable to all passengers flying to/from and within the EU/EEA. Many even want it applicable to international train travel in the region, even on routes that may be mainly commuter train routes.
They want the mass surveillance measure via PNRs to be applicable to all passengers flying to/from and within the EU/EEA. Many even want it applicable to international train travel in the region, even on routes that may be mainly commuter train routes.
https://neurope.eu/article/european-...storical-vote/
Apr 16, 2016, 2:58 pm
#47
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I am not against passenger data sharing if the passenger committed a crime or there is a MAJOR evidence that they person is about to commit a crime, but I am against of the whole "see something, say something" crap they do at NYC and Washington, D.C where they literally sanctioned discrimination and profiling based on your ethnicity/race or because you are so "exotic" looking (as in, they do not know what you are) that they MUST report you as a "person of interest" even if you are merely waiting to board the flight and have done NOTHING suspicious nor have any criminal links.
I find it rather off putting that the US is butting into EU's business and trying to implement this gesture that the US started to give into since 9/11. Especially when most of the terrorists lately involved in France and Belgium are not dark skin.
I find it rather off putting that the US is butting into EU's business and trying to implement this gesture that the US started to give into since 9/11. Especially when most of the terrorists lately involved in France and Belgium are not dark skin.
Apr 21, 2016, 2:09 am
#48
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Was listening in on a conversation of a senior EU country's figure involved in security, and the talk turned to how the e-gates for EU/Schengen countries' nationals need not be about speeding up entry and exit for EU/Schengen country nationals but about increased/more systematic security checks to monitor/control movement of persons.
The talk touched on the following:
how EU/Schengen passengers habituated to very fast moving Schengen passport control lines with just very quick visual inspection of their EU/Schengen passport to enter/exit the Schengen area would be less likely to make a fuss over delays and to direct ire at the governments (over such delays from more systematic doc-checking) if/when the passengers are doing the passport scanning themselves.
The talk touched on the following:
how EU/Schengen passengers habituated to very fast moving Schengen passport control lines with just very quick visual inspection of their EU/Schengen passport to enter/exit the Schengen area would be less likely to make a fuss over delays and to direct ire at the governments (over such delays from more systematic doc-checking) if/when the passengers are doing the passport scanning themselves.
Apr 21, 2016, 2:37 am
#49
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With the current events relating to the immigration crisis (that affects all Mediterranean EU members), they don't know who is entering, they don't know their intentions, etc... .
Personally I think that it is just of question of time, before illegal migrants buy an airplane ticket (once they are in Europe) to get to Germany or Scandinavia (since they are no effective border controls)
No borders is all well and good as long as you don't have thousands of illegal people crossing them. When discussing the immigration crisis with my European friends, all of them approve, despite of political view, of closing borders. Consequently I'm not that convinced that there's going to be an outcry over collecting air passenger data.
I think however that collecting air passenger data in a space without borders is pretty much useless. The Belgian terrorist picked up his accomplices with a hire car. No air travel was involved.
At some point, I crossed borders within Europe on an hourly basis without control whatsoever. The system becomes pretty much useless if you can just walk away from it and travel by land and under the radar.
Apr 21, 2016, 3:39 am
#50
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I'm not sure that it were just the attacks in France and Belgium, that made MEPs jump on the mass surveillance bandwagon. The current situation of thousands and thousands of people traveling undocumented through Europe makes collecting air passenger data very appealing.
With the current events relating to the immigration crisis (that affects all Mediterranean EU members), they don't know who is entering, they don't know their intentions, etc... .
Personally I think that it is just of question of time, before illegal migrants buy an airplane ticket (once they are in Europe) to get to Germany or Scandinavia (since they are no effective border controls)
No borders is all well and good as long as you don't have thousands of illegal people crossing them. When discussing the immigration crisis with my European friends, all of them approve, despite of political view, of closing borders. Consequently I'm not that convinced that there's going to be an outcry over collecting air passenger data.
I think however that collecting air passenger data in a space without borders is pretty much useless. The Belgian terrorist picked up his accomplices with a hire car. No air travel was involved.
At some point, I crossed borders within Europe on an hourly basis without control whatsoever. The system becomes pretty much useless if you can just walk away from it and travel by land and under the radar.
With the current events relating to the immigration crisis (that affects all Mediterranean EU members), they don't know who is entering, they don't know their intentions, etc... .
Personally I think that it is just of question of time, before illegal migrants buy an airplane ticket (once they are in Europe) to get to Germany or Scandinavia (since they are no effective border controls)
No borders is all well and good as long as you don't have thousands of illegal people crossing them. When discussing the immigration crisis with my European friends, all of them approve, despite of political view, of closing borders. Consequently I'm not that convinced that there's going to be an outcry over collecting air passenger data.
I think however that collecting air passenger data in a space without borders is pretty much useless. The Belgian terrorist picked up his accomplices with a hire car. No air travel was involved.
At some point, I crossed borders within Europe on an hourly basis without control whatsoever. The system becomes pretty much useless if you can just walk away from it and travel by land and under the radar.
Originally Posted by GUWonder
This kind of governmental "solution" in search of a "problem" has been making the rounds for at least the last several years (with issues covered herein too http://aei.pitt.edu/11485/1/1903.pdf ); but its fans needed a new moment of tragedy to exploit in order to try (yet again) to get this implemented.
Improperly documented refugees and non-refugee migrants are still flying into Germany and Scandinavia from beyond the Schengen area, and it is often done by way of fraudulent use of real passports. This kind of irregular entry does take place without always being caught at the airports of entry into Schengen. The hope is: that FRT or other automated biometric cross checks will shut more of that down; and that more scanning of passports for hits against national and international blacklists will shut more of that down.
Apr 21, 2016, 4:23 pm
#51
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On intra-Schengen, chances are that your ID won't be checked. If they are checked, it's usually an airline official making sure the name on the boarding pass and the ID coincide.
Last week, during a trip through Europe, I've managed to board a plane without ever being asked for an ID. If it hadn't been for the French, that make you pass immigration in LYS despite arriving on a Schengen flight, I've could have easily traveled unidentified. And that is going to be an issue if you have a million of people without, expired or even fake travel documents flying around.
Yes, the idea was around for a few years. But I think that it has gotten lately much more support (by MPs and the general public).
Apr 21, 2016, 4:57 pm
#52
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The difference being, that Airlines look closely on flights into Schengen (if they transport a passenger that is not allowed to enter, they'll have to bring him back).
On intra-Schengen, chances are that your ID won't be checked. If they are checked, it's usually an airline official making sure the name on the boarding pass and the ID coincide.
Last week, during a trip through Europe, I've managed to board a plane without ever being asked for an ID. If it hadn't been for the French, that make you pass immigration in LYS despite arriving on a Schengen flight, I've could have easily traveled unidentified. And that is going to be an issue if you have a million of people without, expired or even fake travel documents flying around.
Yes, the idea was around for a few years. But I think that it has gotten lately much more support (by MPs and the general public).
On intra-Schengen, chances are that your ID won't be checked. If they are checked, it's usually an airline official making sure the name on the boarding pass and the ID coincide.
Last week, during a trip through Europe, I've managed to board a plane without ever being asked for an ID. If it hadn't been for the French, that make you pass immigration in LYS despite arriving on a Schengen flight, I've could have easily traveled unidentified. And that is going to be an issue if you have a million of people without, expired or even fake travel documents flying around.
Yes, the idea was around for a few years. But I think that it has gotten lately much more support (by MPs and the general public).
Apr 24, 2016, 6:57 pm
#53
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Europeans just won't realize it that the security theatre/paranoia is coming to them soon, just like north americas where people already deal with it.
security industry is too big now to let it fail, gotta sell those scanners/equipment, sell stuff ya know, cuz American jobs are at stake.
On another note, they always been checking ID when boarding. Even if not during security screening. Or maybe they ask the non-whites (brown, black are automatically asked for ID even in Europe for intra-european flights). Only white(considered genuine) people get to go in without passport being opened/stamped.
security industry is too big now to let it fail, gotta sell those scanners/equipment, sell stuff ya know, cuz American jobs are at stake.
On another note, they always been checking ID when boarding. Even if not during security screening. Or maybe they ask the non-whites (brown, black are automatically asked for ID even in Europe for intra-european flights). Only white(considered genuine) people get to go in without passport being opened/stamped.
Last edited by cdn1; Apr 24, 2016 at 7:16 pm
Apr 27, 2016, 1:12 am
#54
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On another note, they always been checking ID when boarding. Even if not during security screening. Or maybe they ask the non-whites (brown, black are automatically asked for ID even in Europe for intra-european flights). Only white(considered genuine) people get to go in without passport being opened/stamped.