fmarangoni76

Hey all,

My wife and I are Italian citizens and US permanent residents. We bought a ticket from Italy to Boston in April, returning in December 2014. Our son was born in July, and now we "just" want to get a one-way ticket back to Italy for him. Our kid is a dual American / Italian citizen, but has (for now) the American passport only.

Under these premises, the airline refused to issue an one-way ticket for my son. They proposed to sell a return ticket (of course, double price), while they said they could issue a one-way ticket if he traveled with an Italian passport.

Of course they were unable to tell me the underlying reason for this apparent discrimination. I would be grateful if anybody could explain it to me and indicate whether there are solutions to that (maybe traveling with a certificate of Italian citizenship)?

Thanks for your help!

GUWonder

Here is what some do:

Buy separate, refundable one-way tickets for Italy-UK travel for the three of you in say January 2015, as that should solve the return/onward ticket demand. After arriving where you need to, cancel the refundable ticket and get your money back for the refundable ticket.

dustman81

Likely, they're worried that he'll be denied entry by Italian immigration and set back to the US if they don't believe that he'll leave within 3 months (the amount of time US citizens are allowed in the Schengen area).

Get an Italian passport for him (you should be able to do that at an Italian embassy or consulate) and his entering Italy (or anywhere in the Schengen area) won't be an issue.

GUWonder

Technically, the above indication of a 90 day maximum stay in any given 180 day period isn't legally applicable across/in the Schengen area to the OP's child even if the child were only a US citizen. Maybe it's applicable in Italy, but I doubt it unless and until I find out otherwise next week.

Just to make things practically much easier with less of a gamble of being hassled by airline reps or some other busybody, it seems advisable to contact the Italian consular officials in the US and have them register the birth in Italy and issue whatever docs they suggest. Hopefully it doesn't take months and months and months to get an appointment to register the birth and to put in for an Italian passport.

Loren Pechtel

No onward ticket. They have no proof he's an Italian citizen, given what documentation they have he's inadmissible. Get the passport.

GUWonder

What makes you sure that -- given what documentation they have -- the child is inadmissible to the Schengen Zone or to the part of the Schengen Zone that is Italy? It's up to the destination jurisdiction's authorities to determine who is "inadmissible". I have little doubt about the following: neither Italian nor other Schengen authorities have a legal right to expel this child of an admissible Italian couple.

Often1

The issue is not what Italian authorities will ultimately do, but the carriers' unwillingness to accept the risk that the child might not be eligible for admission to Schengen / Italy because there is no proof that he is a dual national.

This is no difference than the problem USN's who lose their passport overseas and seek to return to the US find. CBP can't lawfully deny them admission and will, of course process them although it may take a bit more time to verify identity, but the problem is getting a carrier to board the individual without a passport replacing document.

I too would not want the additional stress associated with all of this when traveling with a child. If the closest Italian Consulate can issue a passport or other travel document, do that and make life easy.

GUWonder

Yep, mostly, even as it ultimately does come down to what the Italian authorities will do. If the Italian consular officials are dragging their feet or are backlogged (as they often have been), the refundable, onward ticket for the family (from Italy to say a non-Schengen destination like the UK some 60-80 days out to have some room) generally gets the family around the airline reps paranoid about being held responsible for checking in a passenger who gets denied admission by authorities in the destination jurisdiction (even when the passengers are all legally admissible and the child, citizen or not, cannot be legally expelled from Italy). To get the child's Italian travel docs ultimately depends on what the Italian authorities do and how/when/where the Italian authorities do it.

B747-437B

They have proof that the child is a dependent of a EU national, therefore he is not subject to any stay restrictions.

FredAnderssen

I've never seen a round-trip ticket that's twice the price. In fact, I've typically seen the opposite. The only time I found a one-way ticket that was cheaper to CPH than a round-trip ticket was when I ordered one through a ticket broker called Vayama, and then it was only twenty-five percent less than a normal ticket.

It seems to me it isn't worth trying to buy a one-way ticket to save a couple of hundred bucks when the hassle of getting it wrong could cost you a lot more in the long run.

alanR

They have proof that A child is a dependent of a EU national.

GUWonder

The US passport establishes identity while the certified long-form birth certificate is accepted as proof of parentage for the identified child. The parents have proof of their identity and of their parentage of the named child. Given the age of the child, all these facts constitute proof that the child is a dependent of an EU citizen in the absence of facts that put in doubt prima facie evidence of the identities, citizenships and relationships applicable in the matter. Therefore the minor child is not legally subject to any maximum stay restrictions; nor is the minor child legally subject to expulsion orders when the child's parents are not subject to an expulsion order.

B747-437B

Exactly. This is pretty much the exact guidance provided by EU ALOs to carriers regarding the situation.

saizai

Why not go to an Italian consulate/embassy in the US and ask for an Italian passport for the child?

Xyzzy

Yes -- but isn't an Italian citizen be required to use his Italian passport t enter Italy? If two Italian parents attempt to enter with a US child they could have problems, particularly if the stated departure seems odd. I think the immigration officials might have some questions about this whole scenario.