Border Patrol points gun and detains scout troop at Canadian Border
Jul 23, 2014, 1:29 pm
#16
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"I am not photographing the crossing, I am photographing that mountain. I can't help it if your border crossing is the the frame."
Jul 23, 2014, 3:15 pm
#17
Join Date: Apr 2008
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It's difficult to see how signs prohibiting photography are compatible with court decisions confirming the right to photography.
The TSA tried to use 'SSI' as a reason, but the courts accepted that argument that there was obviously no valid security interest. The images a camera would capture is exactly what someone visiting the area would see. It's not a secret if it's seen by millions of people a year. Even a process that is imposed on only a few thousand is revealed to exactly the people that shouldn't know the putative secret.
The TSA tried to use 'SSI' as a reason, but the courts accepted that argument that there was obviously no valid security interest. The images a camera would capture is exactly what someone visiting the area would see. It's not a secret if it's seen by millions of people a year. Even a process that is imposed on only a few thousand is revealed to exactly the people that shouldn't know the putative secret.
Jul 23, 2014, 3:35 pm
#18
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Was searching for legal president regarding photography at the US Border checkpoint and went to DHS's own website and clicked on "DHS Civil Rights and Civil Liberties" and got this:
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Last Published Date: February 6, 2014"
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Last Published Date: February 6, 2014"
Jul 23, 2014, 3:50 pm
#19
Join Date: Nov 2009
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The wrong way would have the Border Patrol officer bound on to the bus and bark at the children until the Scout in question was shamed into admitting he took the photo, then was barked at some more until the photo was deleted. This would have been followed by a lecture about how Border Patrol is keeping our nation safe from turrists.
The Max Power way would involve the Border Patrol agent and a loaded gun pointed at the head of an underage US citizen.
Jul 23, 2014, 5:29 pm
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
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CBP claims they viewed the video and can't find that any weapon was unholstered, but they are investigating further. Everyone seems to be focused on the gun aspect, but I'm more interested in the claim that it took them 4 hours to clear the checkpoint. That smacks of retaliation and had to involve more than one officer's discretion. It seems like an abuse of discretion to extend a routine border crossing into a 4-hour ordeal even though CBP certainly has the authority to open every nook and cranny. CBP hasn't made any claim that there was reason to suspect the group of any immigration or customs violations. It sounds like they did it to harass and intimidate.
Jul 23, 2014, 5:44 pm
#21
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Sadly, yet logically, I am more prone to believe the statements of a Boy Scout/Scout Master than a statement without proof about evidence claiming to clear the CBP.
The search was definitely retaliatory and punitive. I have spent 2 hours at the US-Canada border at Niagara Falls before but that was during a Sunday night, during the summer and some threat level had been raised. CBP did have all lanes open though and some CBP employees went around with bottles of water and gave access to bathrooms to people with kids/infants. 4 hours is punitive and respect my authority behavior.
The search was definitely retaliatory and punitive. I have spent 2 hours at the US-Canada border at Niagara Falls before but that was during a Sunday night, during the summer and some threat level had been raised. CBP did have all lanes open though and some CBP employees went around with bottles of water and gave access to bathrooms to people with kids/infants. 4 hours is punitive and respect my authority behavior.
CBP claims they viewed the video and can't find that any weapon was unholstered, but they are investigating further. Everyone seems to be focused on the gun aspect, but I'm more interested in the claim that it took them 4 hours to clear the checkpoint. That smacks of retaliation and had to involve more than one officer's discretion. It seems like an abuse of discretion to extend a routine border crossing into a 4-hour ordeal even though CBP certainly has the authority to open every nook and cranny. CBP hasn't made any claim that there was reason to suspect the group of any immigration or customs violations. It sounds like they did it to harass and intimidate.
Jul 23, 2014, 5:50 pm
#22
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 186
It most certainly would not. There are simply no legal restrictions on photography in public places.
Jul 23, 2014, 6:39 pm
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
I'm going with the statement of the kid and his scout leader. Has the ring of truth from folks not badly disposed toward CBP, at least not *before* this incident.
Jul 31, 2014, 6:41 am
#24
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 157
Maybe we should consider officer boredom. The Canada/Alaska border is probably not the most exciting assignment. Plenty of time to get paranoid over boy scouts !
Jul 31, 2014, 6:56 am
#25
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The young man has learned that is very risky to take photos of military or quasi-military installations when in a totalitarian country and America most certainly qualifies.
Jul 31, 2014, 8:42 am
#26
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Those are fighting words from a Canadian
Don't make us think about "liberating" you guys, you do have oil.
Don't make us think about "liberating" you guys, you do have oil.
Jul 31, 2014, 8:44 am
#27
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
'Cept this occurred while the scouts were entering Alaska, which, as hopefully you are aware, is one of the 50 states.
Jul 31, 2014, 9:01 am
#28
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I think OP means that the actual immigration checkpoint is a holding area where your rights are kind of not in full effect (Supreme Court has ruled CBP can do certain kinds of searches without any reasonable suspicion). And only once you are admitted to the country does the Constitution kick in fully.
This is part of the conundrum about preclearence, you present yourself at say DUB or AUH as an American Citizen with appropriate valid documentation. Once that is done you should be waved through and then technically "in America" but there are rumors and stories of hassles & suspect of being able to deny access to an American Citizen before they can enter "America".
This is part of the conundrum about preclearence, you present yourself at say DUB or AUH as an American Citizen with appropriate valid documentation. Once that is done you should be waved through and then technically "in America" but there are rumors and stories of hassles & suspect of being able to deny access to an American Citizen before they can enter "America".
Jul 31, 2014, 10:57 am
#29
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 186
At a US border checkpoint, the police are given an exception to the fourth amendment to conduct an administrative search for contraband. That's it, all other laws are in effect. The idea that the constitution is suspended is ludicrous, as the government then wouldn't have the authority to do anything at all.
If the boy was actually in Canada when he took the picture, then his right to photograph the policeman was protected by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
If the boy was actually in Canada when he took the picture, then his right to photograph the policeman was protected by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
Jul 31, 2014, 10:01 pm
#30
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 157
At a US border checkpoint, the police are given an exception to the fourth amendment to conduct an administrative search for contraband. That's it, all other laws are in effect. The idea that the constitution is suspended is ludicrous, as the government then wouldn't have the authority to do anything at all.