CMK10

Well said. It's also quite possible that like many other people, he was unaware of his rights and didn't know he could: (1) not answer questions; (2) say "no you can't swipe these without a warrant; (3) request a lawyer right away.

Schmurrr

Yes, TSA has authority to search bags for WEI. It is an abuse of that authority to search bags for anything else.

WEI is more or less a clear line. What's the line on quantity of credit cards? Is 10 suspicious? 20? What if I have 20 bottles of various medications? Does that mean I might be trading in opiates? What if I have an album of erotic art (not child porn)? Does that mean I might have child porn somewhere? What if I have a set of lockpicks? They are legal in many states if there is no intent to use them for a crime, but what if TSA decides that I might have such intent? Don't forget that, if we leave it to TSA's judgment, we end up with confiscated cupcakes, fear of gun-shaped purse decals, and attempts to confiscate light saber canes. We end up with innocent citizens harassed, and effectively detained, over nonsense. We end up with a TSA that is exceeding its scope. There are agencies with authority to find drugs, child porn, identity thieves, etc. outside of TSA checkpoints.

CMK10

It seems several federal appeals courts feel differently. As long as they are able to say whatever they found looks like a weapon/explosive or "suspicious" and the search is "it is no more extensive or intensive than necessary" and conducted in good faith, it is not an abuse of that authority.

WillCAD

Yes, TSA has no authority to search for anything other than WEI. But during such a screening they often encounter genuinely illegal things, and are obligated to report any such illegal things to the police. They're government employees, I expect them to report crimes when they see them, and not turn a blind eye because "it's none of their business."

Certain types of illegal items are pretty obvious and nobody would dispute their appearance - kiddie porn, drug paraphernalia, human body parts, things of that nature. ANd it almost goes without saying that certain types of prohibited items, namely explosives and firearms, also warrant calling the police, even if the traveler owns the firearm legally and has a permit to carry.

The problems arise, as you said, when TSOs are left to their own personal judgement, which seems to be as flawed as the rest of the US. TSOs, unfortunately, don't seem to be smart enough to know that bulk cash is not illegal and doesn't have to be declared unless taken out of the country.

But the alternative is to order TSA to intentionally ignore evidence of a crime when they see it. Should a TSO ignore a baggie of what looks like cocaine if they see it in a bag while screening for WEI? Should they ignore photos of children being molested? I say no.

But that also means that sometimes TSOs are going to pull the same bonehead maneuvers that ordinary people pull, and report something that's not illegal and not suspicious, through ignorance. Some of these things I can forgive - if they encounter a large bag of powder that resembles cocaine or heroin and report it, but it turns out to be something innocuous like baby powder or cane sugar from an organic foods store, I can forgive their mistake. Reporting bulk cash is always stupid, and reading through travelers' documents is always exceeding their screening mandate.

In the case at hand, I don't think that reporting a man traveling with 50 credit cards is overreach. While you can come up with reasons why a person might be traveling with 50 credit cards wrapped up in a rubber band, those reasons are the exception rather than the rule. Thus, traveling with 50 credit cards wrapped in a rubber band is suspicious enough to warrant calling the police, and letting the police handle the case. Don't forget, in this particular case, it turned out that the traveler actually was a fraudster.

I'm not defending TSA overreach or mission creep. I'm just saying, this particular case is a bad example of either, because a man carrying 50 credit cards in his carry on is, in my opinion, suspicious enough to justify calling the police to the c/p.

shenxing

I'm shocked that there are people still defending the drug war.

In any case, if the credit cards were wrapped in a rubber band how could the clerk have known there were 50 credit cards in someone else's name vs 1 credit card in someone else's name + 49 gift cards? This would require removing the rubber band and exposing the rest of the cards to "plain sight". This is something a cop wouldn't be able to do and, with the ETD + x-ray, hard to justify as a search for WEI.

InkUnderNails

A line must be drawn somewhere. It has been drawn at WEI. By giving the TSO's discretion to call an LEO based on suspicion, the line is effectively removed.

I am as uncomfortable with removing their discretion in certain cases as many others have stated. My comfort does not replace proper legal procedure.

IANAL, so the follow is only a suggestion. Clear the passenger for WEI and send them on their way. Notify the LEO of the suspicion and let them get the proper warrant for a criminal search with the TSO attesting to what they have seen. The 4th Amendment has already been stretched to near nonrecognition by the administrative search carve out.

Yes, the courts have allowed this occur by saying that accidental discovery is not the same as searching. There are many other things that can be argued to be reasonable exceptions. That does not make them proper or even right. The child molestation photography is particularly disturbing. However, that is a photo of criminal activity taking place, much like finding a photo of what may appear to be a murder or a theft. That is almost the same as witnessing the crime.

A stack of cards is a stack of cards. Period. It is not a crime or even evidence of a crime. Let's use the "reasonable" definition. Place the stack of cards on a table in a busy public place. How many people would reasonably see that as evidence of the commission of a crime? Now put the child molestation photo there. That is a reasonable distinction.

WillCAD

Fifty credit cards, I believe, shows up as a solid mass on the x-ray. Therefore, as I said earlier in the thread, I believe that taking the rubber band off and fanning them out to make sure they're just cards and not a disguised block of explosives seems reasonable in the context of a bag search. This would have been reasonable even in the pre-9/11 x-ray/WTMD era.

Of course, I don't believe that anything more than fanning them out to assure that they're just plastic cards is warranted. No reading of the faces of the cards by TSOs, no comparing signatures, no checking expiration dates, and certainly no swiping the mag strips, is permissible under the WEI search limitations, any more than reading documents, journals, or books is warranted. However, this is a case that, to me, fits the very definition of the plain sight doctrine and its application to airport screening - when you fan out 50 credit cards, you cannot possibly fail to notice that what you're fanning out are 50 credit cards. And in my opinion, carrying 50 credit cards in your carry-on bag is suspicious enough to warrant having the police called to talk to you.

BY the way, I'm not defending the drug war, I'm just stating that, right now, as of this date in history, certain drugs are still illegal to possess and distribute. Whether you think this law should be changed is irrelevant to the fact that it is, now, currently, on the books and should be obeyed until it's changed.

The mere possession of such a photo is, in and of itself, a crime, as well as evidence of the actual abuse.

A stack of cards is a stack of cards, but it's rather difficult for those of us who are lucky enough to have a functional sense of sight to handle such cards without automatically recognizing them as either credit cards, gift cards, or some other variety. A credit card is pretty distinct, and even when you don't read the card's content, you can usually differentiate it from a gift card, a hotel room key, a Disney World ticket, or one of those "tipping guides" that are handed out at trade shows.

This case has three main issues for me:

1. Did the TSO exceed his mandate by taking the rubber band off the stack of cards?
2. Did the TSO exceed his mandate by reading the cards in detail?
3. Is possession of 50 credit cards - regardless of whether they're all the same, all different, all in the same name, or all in a different name - something that can be characterized as suspicious enough for the TSO to call the police?

My personal opinion on these matters is:

1. So long as the TSO did not read or closely examine the cards, merely taking the rubber band off and fanning them out to see if they were just cards or if they were hollowed out to hide WEI did not exceed the TSA's screening mandate.
2. If the TSO read the cards in detail, if he read the names on the cards, checked signatures, or anything other than fanning them out to determine whether they were just cards, he exceeded his mandate. Note: As I said above, I do not believe that merely recognizing that the stack of cards you're fanning out are all credit cards, as opposed to hotel keys, gift cards, fancy business cards, or a stack of Fresnel lenses (they come in credit card size, very useful items), exceeds the mandate.
3. I believe that possession of 50 credit cards while traveling IS suspicious enough to warrant a call to the police. The average number of credit cards carried by travelers in the US is something less than 5. However, it's certainly possible for someone to have as many as 10, maybe even 15, legitimately. More than 15 becomes mildly suspicious, and 50 is a dead giveaway that the possessor is either engaged in credit card fraud, identity theft, or pickpocketing. Again, as I said earlier, you can certainly come up with legitimate reasons why a person might be carrying so many credit cards, but those reasons are the exception rather than the rule, so my opinion is that a stack of 50 cards is suspicious enough to call the cops.

InkUnderNails

As I said before, IANAL. Can you cite a statute in which the possession of 50 (or any specific number) of credit cards is illegal and thus a cause for suspicion?

I once knew a person that carried 50-100 (maybe more, I did not count them) different credit cards at all times when traveling. It was quite legitimate. Of what crime is he suspected?

Swissaire

Hi Ink-

I'm sure your friend carrying a large number of credit cards COULD provide an explanation that a reasonable person would find acceptable.

The fact is that the suspect mentioned in this article could not come up with an explanation, which was probably to law enforcement officials, which TSA are not.

The suspect mentioned is nothing more than a mule: Drugs, contraband, weapons, and credit card information illegally obtained, and carried.

Let him do the time he has earned and so richly deserves.

shenxing

This is America and we have a presumption of innocence in criminal matters. You don't have to come up with an explanation for your actions. Credit cards are not WEI. It's a waste of time and an overstep of an administrative search to bust this guy at the airport when he could have just mailed the cards (as many presumably do.)

WillCAD

Hi Ink,

I never said it was illegal to possess large number of credit cards. It's certainly not, in and of itself. However, what I said was that it is suspicious.

It is very difficult for a person to open large numbers of credit card accounts in their own name. The more credit you have, the less likely you are to be approved for another account by most banks. It's not impossible, but the difficulty makes it exceedingly rare for a person to legitimately possess more than 10 credit cards. Hence, possession of more than 10 indicates that a person may possess them illegitimately, as a thief or fraudster might. The more cards you have, the more suspicious it is, because of the difficulty in opening a new account increases with each new card you are issued.

As I stated before, I'm certain there are plenty of instances like your friend who could be cited as examples of people legitimately possessing large numbers of credit cards. But these people are the exception rather than the rule.

The two crimes that your friend might be suspected of are A) thievery, since possessing many cards in many different names, not your own, indicates that you may have stolen these cards from their rightful owners, or B) credit card fraud/identity theft, if you possess many duplicate cards in your own name, or all in a single name not your own, as was the case in the OP.

Once again, let me reiterate - possessing multiple cards is not, in and of itself, a crime, nor is it even concrete evidence of a crime. However, carrying large number of credit cards in your carry-on bag while traveling is suspicious. The traveler in question certainly can have perfectly legitimate reasons for having those cards and they may all be real and issued to him legitimately by various banks, but the fact remains that it's very rare for a person to have so many cards legitimately, which makes it perfectly reasonable to be suspicious when one encounters such a person.

I am very curious about your friend, though. How on earth could he have been issued so many credit cards? So much open credit tends to lower one's credit score to the point where many banks will simply deny you another card when you apply. I could see someone having up to 10, maybe even 15, if they travel a lot and need different cards for different countries - especially if traveling frequently between the US, where stripe and signature still reigns supreme, and other countries where chip and pin has superceded the old ways - but 50-100 cards? That's huge.

I'm going to hazard a guess that your friend is probably in a 'buying' job which requires large numbers of purchases, such as specialty foods for a restaurant, or fabrics and materials for a fashion designer, or antiques for interior designers, or something similar.

shenxing

I have about fifteen credit cards in my name. This is just the result of churning a few bonuses. If anything, the more you have the easier it is to get approved.

Take a peek at the MS forum.Which do you think is rarer, credit card consumers (out of a many billion dollar industry) or thieves?

Blogndog

I strongly disagree with those arguing that is diificult or suspicious to have more than 10 cards. One of the main reasons to have multiple cards is to have catds issued in different currencies in order to avoid exchange fees. Another is so that you could use multiple iTunes stores. A card issuer in the UK has no idea that I have already have 3 cards issued in Germany, and the issuer in Germany doesn't know I have a card issued in Poland. As others have mentioned, another reason is collecting sign up bonuses, etc. i remember years ago, the Guiness book of world records listed some guy known as "Plastic Fantastic" as having bbeen issued, IIIRC, over 250 working credit cards. Don't know if that record is still in there.

WillCAD

Okay, maybe my perception is skewed by my limited experience. Let's take a look and find out.

I've posted a new thread in Travel Buzz asking how many credit cards the average flyer has. I avoided the credit card forums, particularly MS, because I want a broader cross section of FT members, and I feel that the MS forum would be heavily trafficked by those who sign up for a lot of cards for rewards and miles, as you mentioned. I'd appreciate if everyone involved in this discussion would post there, as well, and I'll tally the results after a few days, and re-evaluate my own feelings on this matter once I find out whether the average is under 10 or over 30.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...l#post23270464

CMK10

There's no statute but one isn't needed thanks to case law. I cited two cases above which set guidelines on when evidence obtained by TSOs searching for WEIs but finding other illegal substances (in both cases, drug paraphernalia) would be admitted. To repeat again: