Throw away previous civil disobedience and accept free PreCheck?
Apr 17, 2014, 10:02 pm
#31
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,830
Hey all. Despite few posts, I have lurked in this forum for awhile and have learned much. Thanks to all.
I travel domestically virtually every week and feel like I may have reached a top tier of TSA antagonism - my favorite play is to declare my baseball cap as "religious headgear" and refuse to take it off. Those of you in the know realize that TSA cannot compel any traveler to remove any headgear, and that it must be hand cleared. This fact does not prevent a circus atmosphere at the checkpoint every time we play this game.
Suffice it to say that I despise the TSA and everything it stands for, and I swore that I would never pay an $85 extortion fee to join the PreCheck program. Today I get an email from my employer that they will pay the fee for me.
(1) stick to my principles, and continue opting out for the "freedom grope" 2-4 times per week. Get to the airport early. Continue taking a stand, despite never having seen a single pax "opt out" based on my conduct/protestations.
(2) suck it up, take the free PreCheck, and leave my shoes on. Sleep in and get to the airport late. Have lingering distaste in my mouth, feel like a sell out, and basically abandon my antagonism of the TSA.
Honestly this is a coin flip for me. Help me decide please. Thanks.
I travel domestically virtually every week and feel like I may have reached a top tier of TSA antagonism - my favorite play is to declare my baseball cap as "religious headgear" and refuse to take it off. Those of you in the know realize that TSA cannot compel any traveler to remove any headgear, and that it must be hand cleared. This fact does not prevent a circus atmosphere at the checkpoint every time we play this game.
Suffice it to say that I despise the TSA and everything it stands for, and I swore that I would never pay an $85 extortion fee to join the PreCheck program. Today I get an email from my employer that they will pay the fee for me.
(1) stick to my principles, and continue opting out for the "freedom grope" 2-4 times per week. Get to the airport early. Continue taking a stand, despite never having seen a single pax "opt out" based on my conduct/protestations.
(2) suck it up, take the free PreCheck, and leave my shoes on. Sleep in and get to the airport late. Have lingering distaste in my mouth, feel like a sell out, and basically abandon my antagonism of the TSA.
Honestly this is a coin flip for me. Help me decide please. Thanks.
Apr 18, 2014, 1:02 am
#32
Moderator: Manufactured Spending
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,580
There's a way to read that, though, that isn't nearly so conspiratorial.
There are statements from various TSA folks (at all levels) that suggest that TSA wants to move to PreCheck as the standard for all screening, precisely for the reasons that many of us have complained about for years here (ineffective screening, invasions of privacy, wasteful spending, etc.). If TSA is attempting to respond to silence the criticism by, you know, actually doing the right thing, then a happy consequence of such actions will be to silence the critics who offer that criticism.
There are statements from various TSA folks (at all levels) that suggest that TSA wants to move to PreCheck as the standard for all screening, precisely for the reasons that many of us have complained about for years here (ineffective screening, invasions of privacy, wasteful spending, etc.). If TSA is attempting to respond to silence the criticism by, you know, actually doing the right thing, then a happy consequence of such actions will be to silence the critics who offer that criticism.
Apr 18, 2014, 4:43 am
#33
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
(2) suck it up, take the free PreCheck, and leave my shoes on. Sleep in and get to the airport late. Have lingering distaste in my mouth, feel like a sell out, and basically abandon my antagonism of the TSA.
Honestly this is a coin flip for me. Help me decide please. Thanks.
Honestly this is a coin flip for me. Help me decide please. Thanks.
WSJ - if you can access it
Apr 18, 2014, 5:32 am
#34
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,165
I don't think anyone has said that TSA wants to move to PreCheck as the standard for all screening. The AIT companies would throw a fit if that happened. They definitely want to increase the number of people in PreCheck, but I haven't seen anyone say they want to make it the default.
Apr 18, 2014, 6:10 am
#35
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
I don't think anyone has said that TSA wants to move to PreCheck as the standard for all screening. The AIT companies would throw a fit if that happened. They definitely want to increase the number of people in PreCheck, but I haven't seen anyone say they want to make it the default.
Originally Posted by John Pistole
We have a goal to have 25 percent of all travelers in the United States by the end of the year [2013] go through some form of expedited physical screening.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/01/bu...-security.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/01/bu...-security.html
Also, keep in mind that, at the time of the quote, PreCheck was only in 40 airports. Moving from 40 airports to 25% of all passengers was an aggressive goal (as Pistole himself notes).
I still think TSA's intention is to get a majority of passengers into PreCheck, one way or another. At that point, PreCheck ceases to be a "special program". But that's my opinion only.
Apr 18, 2014, 6:52 am
#36
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
My Google-Fu is not good, but I did find this quote from Pistole:
I will concede that 25% is certainly not high enough to call it the "default", as I did before. But I think that 25% is greater than the number of "elites" who travel on a daily basis.
Also, keep in mind that, at the time of the quote, PreCheck was only in 40 airports. Moving from 40 airports to 25% of all passengers was an aggressive goal (as Pistole himself notes).
I still think TSA's intention is to get a majority of passengers into PreCheck, one way or another. At that point, PreCheck ceases to be a "special program". But that's my opinion only.
I will concede that 25% is certainly not high enough to call it the "default", as I did before. But I think that 25% is greater than the number of "elites" who travel on a daily basis.
Also, keep in mind that, at the time of the quote, PreCheck was only in 40 airports. Moving from 40 airports to 25% of all passengers was an aggressive goal (as Pistole himself notes).
I still think TSA's intention is to get a majority of passengers into PreCheck, one way or another. At that point, PreCheck ceases to be a "special program". But that's my opinion only.
Apr 18, 2014, 8:07 am
#37
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
His stated hope -- in one place at least -- has been for 3/4 or 4/5 to get it. For a family of four traveling to Disney with one parent enrolled in a DHS pay-to-play membership program, 3/4 getting the PreCheck LLL screening as an option shouldn't be a surprise. That is where he wanted to go with this.
Apr 18, 2014, 9:07 am
#38
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
Apr 18, 2014, 2:08 pm
#39
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 729
...There are statements from various TSA folks (at all levels) that suggest that TSA wants to move to PreCheck as the standard for all screening, precisely for the reasons that many of us have complained about for years here (ineffective screening, invasions of privacy, wasteful spending, etc.). If TSA is attempting to respond to silence the criticism by, you know, actually doing the right thing, then a happy consequence of such actions will be to silence the critics who offer that criticism...
To put it another way, TSA cannot move increasing numbers of people to PreCheck without offsetting the reduction in scrutiny of the masses somehow. TSA cannot institute what is effectively pre-9/11 security procedures (plus secured cockpits) without invalidating the creation of TSA in the first place. TSA cannot come full circle, so to speak, without calling into question the billions that TSA has spent over the years. TSA will find a way to continue its invasions of privacy and its explorations of new technologies simply to justify its existence and keep itself fed.
Apr 18, 2014, 5:53 pm
#40
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
TSA cannot move increasing numbers of people to PreCheck without offsetting the reduction in scrutiny of the masses somehow. TSA cannot institute what is effectively pre-9/11 security procedures (plus secured cockpits) without invalidating the creation of TSA in the first place.
TSA used to ban cigarette lighters in carry-on luggage. Then TSA reversed the ban, mostly (IIRC) because of political pressure from the manufacturers of the lighters. TSA justified it by saying "looking for lighters distracts us from looking for more dangerous items".
TSA used to require everyone to take their shoes off. Then TSA partially reversed the ban for kids and the elderly, saying "we no longer consider them a serious threat vector".
TSA almost eliminated its ban on pocket knives for the same reason ... until it caved to pressure from the Transport Workers Union. But it was at least showing that reasoning.
So TSA could absolutely justify an expansion of PreCheck. All it has to say is "Our current understanding of the threats out there suggest that easing screening will have no effect on the safety of airline travel, and we can spend that money in other ways, like intelligence". It doesn't have to admit it was wrong in the past; it can simply say "things are different now".
But all of that requires leadership. TSA might be capable of that. It might not. Only history will provide the answer.
Apr 18, 2014, 7:44 pm
#41
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,165
Apr 18, 2014, 8:16 pm
#42
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,830
get Pre, go through the lines, but do so every time while filming on your phone. They HATE IT, but it's 110% permitted.
https://www.tsa.gov/pressroom-channe...ographyfilming
https://www.tsa.gov/pressroom-channe...ographyfilming
Apr 18, 2014, 11:29 pm
#43
Moderator: Manufactured Spending
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,580
If Precheck becomes the default, then Rapiscan and friends are going to object. Either they will start using the machines on Precheck passengers (while letting them keep their shoes and coats on) or they will start "randomly" directing Precheck passengers into the regular line to keep the machines busy.
Apr 19, 2014, 3:26 am
#44
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SYD (perenially), GVA (not in a long time)
Programs: QF PS, EK-Gold, Security Theatre Critic
Posts: 6,790
...
There are statements from various TSA folks (at all levels) that suggest that TSA wants to move to PreCheck as the standard for all screening...
On the other hand, participating in PreCheck might actually encourage the TSA to open it up to more and more people. TSA has managed to screen thousands of people a day using PreCheck without any loss of security. That might convince TSA that more people should be allowed to use PreCheck --- with the ultimate goal, of course, being that PreCheck is the default mode of screening for most passengers.
There are statements from various TSA folks (at all levels) that suggest that TSA wants to move to PreCheck as the standard for all screening...
On the other hand, participating in PreCheck might actually encourage the TSA to open it up to more and more people. TSA has managed to screen thousands of people a day using PreCheck without any loss of security. That might convince TSA that more people should be allowed to use PreCheck --- with the ultimate goal, of course, being that PreCheck is the default mode of screening for most passengers.
of PreCheck with background checks or web surveillance or something else nefarious.Why do you believe that more people participating in PreCheck would affect TSA's decision - do you think they imagine that most people prefer the current standard if PreCheck enrollment is low?
*And by everyone, I mean everyone - non-US citizens visiting the US, low-income elderly on their one-every-third-year trip to see the grandkids, the family of 6 going to Disneyland, not just those who fly often enough to justify the time and expense of signing up for a program.
TSA could do this tomorrow. Betcha they won't.
Apr 19, 2014, 3:42 am
#45
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Sure it can. It just requires leadership.
TSA used to ban cigarette lighters in carry-on luggage. Then TSA reversed the ban, mostly (IIRC) because of political pressure from the manufacturers of the lighters. TSA justified it by saying "looking for lighters distracts us from looking for more dangerous items".
TSA used to require everyone to take their shoes off. Then TSA partially reversed the ban for kids and the elderly, saying "we no longer consider them a serious threat vector".
TSA almost eliminated its ban on pocket knives for the same reason ... until it caved to pressure from the Transport Workers Union. But it was at least showing that reasoning.
So TSA could absolutely justify an expansion of PreCheck. All it has to say is "Our current understanding of the threats out there suggest that easing screening will have no effect on the safety of airline travel, and we can spend that money in other ways, like intelligence". It doesn't have to admit it was wrong in the past; it can simply say "things are different now".
But all of that requires leadership. TSA might be capable of that. It might not. Only history will provide the answer.
TSA used to ban cigarette lighters in carry-on luggage. Then TSA reversed the ban, mostly (IIRC) because of political pressure from the manufacturers of the lighters. TSA justified it by saying "looking for lighters distracts us from looking for more dangerous items".
TSA used to require everyone to take their shoes off. Then TSA partially reversed the ban for kids and the elderly, saying "we no longer consider them a serious threat vector".
TSA almost eliminated its ban on pocket knives for the same reason ... until it caved to pressure from the Transport Workers Union. But it was at least showing that reasoning.
So TSA could absolutely justify an expansion of PreCheck. All it has to say is "Our current understanding of the threats out there suggest that easing screening will have no effect on the safety of airline travel, and we can spend that money in other ways, like intelligence". It doesn't have to admit it was wrong in the past; it can simply say "things are different now".
But all of that requires leadership. TSA might be capable of that. It might not. Only history will provide the answer.