Brazil looking to be part of Visa Waiver program
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: RDU
Programs: OnePass
Posts: 772
Brazil looking to be part of Visa Waiver program
http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...075717,00.html
Interesting article about how the fact that the US doesn't let any Latin American nations participate in the VWP is hurting the US Economy.
Best quote out of the article:
Sound familiar?
Mods: If this isn't the right place, please feel free to move it to where it belongs.
Interesting article about how the fact that the US doesn't let any Latin American nations participate in the VWP is hurting the US Economy.
Best quote out of the article:
The good news, he says, is that the problem is still fixable, and has some inexpensive solutions. By just extending the visa-waiver program to Brazil and Chile, he says, the United States could double visits from those countries in one year and quickly generate $10.3 billion in new tourism revenue while creating 95,100 new American jobs. The Travel Association has also proposed a simple, four-point plan for "common sense entry reforms" that Dow says would create an estimated 1.3 million new jobs and bring in $858 billion into the U.S. economy by 2020. He insists the entry reforms, visa waivers and other "trusted traveler" initiatives would not compromise U.S. national security, rather streamline it and let Homeland Security "focus more on finding bad guys rather than harassing the good guys." "If you want to find needle in haystack, you shrink the haystack," Dow says. But, he adds, "If you treat every traveler as a terrorist, [security work] becomes very difficult."
Mods: If this isn't the right place, please feel free to move it to where it belongs.
#2
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...075717,00.html
Interesting article about how the fact that the US doesn't let any Latin American nations participate in the VWP is hurting the US Economy.
Best quote out of the article:
Sound familiar?
Mods: If this isn't the right place, please feel free to move it to where it belongs.
Interesting article about how the fact that the US doesn't let any Latin American nations participate in the VWP is hurting the US Economy.
Best quote out of the article:
Sound familiar?
Mods: If this isn't the right place, please feel free to move it to where it belongs.
There is a full court press for Brazil to get back on the US VWP. Argentina and Chile and perhaps Uruguay will likely end up back on it along with or after Brazil. Interestingly enough, nationals of these countries for the most part have visa waiver/visa on arrival allowances to countries that are higher income countries than the US.
#3
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SE Asia
Posts: 647
Argentina and Uruguay used to be part of the VWP. I'd love to see Brazil added, as well as Chile as long as they add us to their VWP.
Economically, it makes a lot of sense. But then again, since when has the USG ever given two hoots about Latin America? Unless it was busy installing a dictator.
Economically, it makes a lot of sense. But then again, since when has the USG ever given two hoots about Latin America? Unless it was busy installing a dictator.
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SJC, SFO, YYC
Programs: AA-EXP, AA-0.41MM, UA-Gold, Ex UA-1K (2006 thru 2015), PMUA-0.95MM, COUA-1.5MM-lite, AF-Silver
Posts: 13,437
OTOH, once Brazil is added to the the USA's VWP, it will then add the USA to Brazil's VWP. So the boost to the USA economy might be offset by the boost to the Brazilian economy, i.e. the money coming in from Brazil will be offset by the money going to Brazil.
In general, countries whose citizens are restricted from traveling to the USA by the USA should retaliate by eliminating all travel restrictions on U.S. citizens to the non-USA countries. Even better, provide flights from small airports in the USA to Mexico and Canada and connect to the other countries to avoid the TSA completely, and essentially provide a zero hassle experience (except for the CBP on the return trip). It is best for those countries if the USA continues to construct a fortress.
In general, countries whose citizens are restricted from traveling to the USA by the USA should retaliate by eliminating all travel restrictions on U.S. citizens to the non-USA countries. Even better, provide flights from small airports in the USA to Mexico and Canada and connect to the other countries to avoid the TSA completely, and essentially provide a zero hassle experience (except for the CBP on the return trip). It is best for those countries if the USA continues to construct a fortress.
#5
Join Date: May 2009
Location: DCA
Programs: AA Gold
Posts: 50
Reciprocity
I love how both Brazil and Chile have taken deliberate, explicitly symbolic steps to treat American visitors to their country in the same way that Brazilians and Chileans are treated by the USA.
At SCL, there's a kiosk right before immigration where Americans are asked to pay a "reciprocity" fee equivalent to exactly how much the USA charges Chileans for a visa.
And Brazil's imposition of a fingerprinting requirement on US citizens -- and only US citizens -- entering the country was simply classic.
Sadly, reciprocity measures against American travelers mean little to US elected official: their core voter base doesn't travel abroad. The political calculus still weighs heavily in favor of theatrical, heavy-handed "security" measures against legitimate documented travelers, even while millions of utterly undocumented migrants stream across the USA's southern border.
At SCL, there's a kiosk right before immigration where Americans are asked to pay a "reciprocity" fee equivalent to exactly how much the USA charges Chileans for a visa.
And Brazil's imposition of a fingerprinting requirement on US citizens -- and only US citizens -- entering the country was simply classic.
Sadly, reciprocity measures against American travelers mean little to US elected official: their core voter base doesn't travel abroad. The political calculus still weighs heavily in favor of theatrical, heavy-handed "security" measures against legitimate documented travelers, even while millions of utterly undocumented migrants stream across the USA's southern border.
#6
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
As the US government -- which is but a reflection of the public which it represents -- views air travel and other US citizens' deepening international connections abroad as suspect behavior already, I don't think even foreign government reductions in visa requirements/visa costs (or reciprocity fees as the case may be) for US citizens is going to change the prevailing culture that has given us the DHS (TSA and CBP) we have got.
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: body: A stone's throw from SFO, mind: SE Asia
Programs: Some of this 'n some of that
Posts: 17,263
I also don't blame the countries for setting up the reciprical fees. I don't like it, but I sure do understand.
#8
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC Aeroplan - Elite Status. DL Skymiles - Regular Status
Posts: 509
I love how both Brazil and Chile have taken deliberate, explicitly symbolic steps to treat American visitors to their country in the same way that Brazilians and Chileans are treated by the USA.
At SCL, there's a kiosk right before immigration where Americans are asked to pay a "reciprocity" fee equivalent to exactly how much the USA charges Chileans for a visa.
And Brazil's imposition of a fingerprinting requirement on US citizens -- and only US citizens -- entering the country was simply classic.
.
At SCL, there's a kiosk right before immigration where Americans are asked to pay a "reciprocity" fee equivalent to exactly how much the USA charges Chileans for a visa.
And Brazil's imposition of a fingerprinting requirement on US citizens -- and only US citizens -- entering the country was simply classic.
.
#9
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 819
Most countries in South America are already on the Schengen visa waiver list. And the 140 dollar fee is the a defacto visa fee even though it may not technically be that in US law. I am just wondering when we will put Russia on the Schengen visa waiver list so we can access Russia visa free too. Russia is an European country period. We have already put Serbia, Montengro and Albania there.Taiwan was added from January this year. I also believe Turkey should be added there. Luckily when I had a Turkish person over to Norway she had a green passport so it was visa free. I was really fearing I had to deal with all the paperwork for a Schengen visa.
#10
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Dulles, VA
Programs: UA Life Gold, Marriott Life Titanium
Posts: 2,757
The current high prices in Brasil, due to the strong Real and the 10% inflation they're still having per year, has tripled prices on everything in dollar terms in the last 6 years or so. That has pretty much cratered US travel to Brasil. Flights I'm on between the US and Brasil are generally at least 60-70% brasilero.
The visa issue has always been a pain. Reciprocity is pretty stupid since 1) it does not make the US change it's policy and 2) creates a hurdle for Americans to visit and spend money. I'm on my second 5-year visa and it is a pain to have to go to the Embassy to get a new one. But, compared to the usual, chronic hassles in Brasil - poor customer service at hotels and restaurants, fairly low quality hotels, high rates of petty crime in Rio and parts of Sao Paulo, etc - the hassle of getting a Brasilian visa is really low on the list of reasons to maybe not go at all.
There aren't nearly the number of Americans in Brasil as there were 5 years ago. Dropping the need for a visa won't really increase the number of Americans going down at this point.
The visa issue has always been a pain. Reciprocity is pretty stupid since 1) it does not make the US change it's policy and 2) creates a hurdle for Americans to visit and spend money. I'm on my second 5-year visa and it is a pain to have to go to the Embassy to get a new one. But, compared to the usual, chronic hassles in Brasil - poor customer service at hotels and restaurants, fairly low quality hotels, high rates of petty crime in Rio and parts of Sao Paulo, etc - the hassle of getting a Brasilian visa is really low on the list of reasons to maybe not go at all.
There aren't nearly the number of Americans in Brasil as there were 5 years ago. Dropping the need for a visa won't really increase the number of Americans going down at this point.
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: RDU
Programs: OnePass
Posts: 772
I love it too. It would be great if every country decided to treat American citizens "reciprocally".. Not necessarily charging them a visa fee, but fingerprinting requirements would be great. It may actually change CBP / American politicians feelings and actions towards visitors.
Washington is clueless. I wonder what it'll take to wake them up.
#12
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,347
http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...075717,00.html
Interesting article about how the fact that the US doesn't let any Latin American nations participate in the VWP is hurting the US Economy.
Best quote out of the article:
Sound familiar?
Mods: If this isn't the right place, please feel free to move it to where it belongs.
Interesting article about how the fact that the US doesn't let any Latin American nations participate in the VWP is hurting the US Economy.
Best quote out of the article:
Sound familiar?
Mods: If this isn't the right place, please feel free to move it to where it belongs.
(
(c) Designation of program countries
(1) In general The Attorney General, in consultation with the Secretary of State, may designate any country as a program country if it meets the requirements of paragraph (2).
(2) Qualifications Except as provided in subsection (f) of this section, a country may not be designated as a program country unless the following requirements are met:
(A) Low nonimmigrant visa refusal rate Either -
(i) the average number of refusals of nonimmigrant visitor visas for nationals of that country during -
(I) the two previous full fiscal years was less than 2.0 percent of the total number of nonimmigrant visitor visas for nationals of that country which were granted or refused during those years; and
(II) either of such two previous full fiscal years was less than 2.5 percent of the total number of nonimmigrant visitor visas for nationals of that country which were granted or refused during that year; or
(ii) such refusal rate for nationals of that country during the previous full fiscal year was less than 3.0 percent.
(B) Machine readable passport program
(i) In general Subject to clause (ii), the government of the country certifies that it issues to its citizens machine-readable passports that satisfy the internationally accepted standard for machine readability.
(ii) Deadline for compliance for certain countries In the case of a country designated as a program country under this subsection prior to May 1, 2000, as a condition on the continuation of that designation, the country - (I) shall certify, not later than October 1, 2000, that it has a program to issue machine-readable passports to its citizens not later than October 1, 2003; and
(II) shall satisfy the requirement of clause (i) not later than October 1, 2003.
(C) Law enforcement and security interests
The Attorney General, in consultation with the Secretary of State - (i) evaluates the effect that the country's designation would have on the law enforcement and security interests of the United States (including the interest in enforcement of the immigration laws of the United States and the existence and effectiveness of its agreements and procedures for extraditing to the United States individuals, including its own nationals, who commit crimes that violate United States law);
(ii) determines that such interests would not be compromised by the designation of the country; and
(iii) submits a written report to the Committee on the Judiciary and the Committee on International Relations of the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary and the Committee on Foreign Relations of the Senate regarding the country's qualification for designation that includes an explanation of such determination.
(D) Reporting passport thefts
The government of the country certifies that it reports to the United States Government on a timely basis the theft of blank passports issued by that country.
(3) Continuing and subsequent qualifications
For each fiscal year after the initial period -
(A) Continuing qualification In the case of a country which was a program country in the previous fiscal year, a country may not be designated as a program country unless the sum of -
(i) the total of the number of nationals of that country who were denied admission at the time of arrival or withdrew their application for admission during such previous fiscal year as a nonimmigrant visitor, and
(ii) the total number of nationals of that country who were admitted as nonimmigrant visitors during such previous fiscal year and who violated the terms of such admission, was less than 2 percent of the total number of nationals of that country who applied for admission as nonimmigrant visitors during such previous fiscal year.
(B) New countries
In the case of another country, the country may not be designated as a program country unless the following requirements are met:
(i) Low nonimmigrant visa refusal rate in previous 2-year period. The average number of refusals of nonimmigrant visitor visas for nationals of that country during the two previous full fiscal years was less than 2 percent of the total number of nonimmigrant visitor visas for nationals of that country which were granted or refused during those years.
(ii) Low nonimmigrant visa refusal rate in each of the 2 previous years. The average number of refusals of nonimmigrant visitor visas for nationals of that country during either of such two previous full fiscal years was less than 2.5 percent of the total number of nonimmigrant visitor visas for nationals of that country which were granted or refused during that year.
(1) In general The Attorney General, in consultation with the Secretary of State, may designate any country as a program country if it meets the requirements of paragraph (2).
(2) Qualifications Except as provided in subsection (f) of this section, a country may not be designated as a program country unless the following requirements are met:
(A) Low nonimmigrant visa refusal rate Either -
(i) the average number of refusals of nonimmigrant visitor visas for nationals of that country during -
(I) the two previous full fiscal years was less than 2.0 percent of the total number of nonimmigrant visitor visas for nationals of that country which were granted or refused during those years; and
(II) either of such two previous full fiscal years was less than 2.5 percent of the total number of nonimmigrant visitor visas for nationals of that country which were granted or refused during that year; or
(ii) such refusal rate for nationals of that country during the previous full fiscal year was less than 3.0 percent.
(B) Machine readable passport program
(i) In general Subject to clause (ii), the government of the country certifies that it issues to its citizens machine-readable passports that satisfy the internationally accepted standard for machine readability.
(ii) Deadline for compliance for certain countries In the case of a country designated as a program country under this subsection prior to May 1, 2000, as a condition on the continuation of that designation, the country - (I) shall certify, not later than October 1, 2000, that it has a program to issue machine-readable passports to its citizens not later than October 1, 2003; and
(II) shall satisfy the requirement of clause (i) not later than October 1, 2003.
(C) Law enforcement and security interests
The Attorney General, in consultation with the Secretary of State - (i) evaluates the effect that the country's designation would have on the law enforcement and security interests of the United States (including the interest in enforcement of the immigration laws of the United States and the existence and effectiveness of its agreements and procedures for extraditing to the United States individuals, including its own nationals, who commit crimes that violate United States law);
(ii) determines that such interests would not be compromised by the designation of the country; and
(iii) submits a written report to the Committee on the Judiciary and the Committee on International Relations of the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary and the Committee on Foreign Relations of the Senate regarding the country's qualification for designation that includes an explanation of such determination.
(D) Reporting passport thefts
The government of the country certifies that it reports to the United States Government on a timely basis the theft of blank passports issued by that country.
(3) Continuing and subsequent qualifications
For each fiscal year after the initial period -
(A) Continuing qualification In the case of a country which was a program country in the previous fiscal year, a country may not be designated as a program country unless the sum of -
(i) the total of the number of nationals of that country who were denied admission at the time of arrival or withdrew their application for admission during such previous fiscal year as a nonimmigrant visitor, and
(ii) the total number of nationals of that country who were admitted as nonimmigrant visitors during such previous fiscal year and who violated the terms of such admission, was less than 2 percent of the total number of nationals of that country who applied for admission as nonimmigrant visitors during such previous fiscal year.
(B) New countries
In the case of another country, the country may not be designated as a program country unless the following requirements are met:
(i) Low nonimmigrant visa refusal rate in previous 2-year period. The average number of refusals of nonimmigrant visitor visas for nationals of that country during the two previous full fiscal years was less than 2 percent of the total number of nonimmigrant visitor visas for nationals of that country which were granted or refused during those years.
(ii) Low nonimmigrant visa refusal rate in each of the 2 previous years. The average number of refusals of nonimmigrant visitor visas for nationals of that country during either of such two previous full fiscal years was less than 2.5 percent of the total number of nonimmigrant visitor visas for nationals of that country which were granted or refused during that year.
http://www.visalaw.com/03mar1/10mar103.html
http://www.uslegalimmigration.com/cg...047063740,9305,
#13
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Washington isn't clueless; rather it's just that clued-in elected policy-makers in the capital and the bureaucratic tools engage in career-protection measures, amongst which is catering to clueless constituents' still widespread paranoia about "aliens".
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: RDU
Programs: OnePass
Posts: 772
We need a revolution.
#15
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Dulles, VA
Programs: UA Life Gold, Marriott Life Titanium
Posts: 2,757
What does the government bashing have anything to do with allowing Brasil to enter the visa-waiver program? Brasil is a classic conservative economic system - there is a small set of rich, a massive population of poor, and nothing really in between. The middle class in Brasil would be considered poor here, the poor in Brasil don't really have a corresponding group here. The rich can generally get visas at the moment, the rest can't get a visa but then again, they can't afford a plane ticket anyways.
Allowing Brasil to go visa-waiver will make it easier for guys to bring girls up and for Brasilians here to bring their family and friends for visits, but I doubt if it would increase tourism in the US that much. It would make business easier, but again, those guys can generally always get a visa. What it won't do is increase American tourism at the current price levels. Sao Paulo is more expensive than New York City and Rio is getting there. Porto Alegre and Curitiba and the north of Brasil are a lot cheaper, but not too many tourists are going to venture there and 90% of the international business in Brasil is in Sao Paulo.
Allowing Brasil to go visa-waiver will make it easier for guys to bring girls up and for Brasilians here to bring their family and friends for visits, but I doubt if it would increase tourism in the US that much. It would make business easier, but again, those guys can generally always get a visa. What it won't do is increase American tourism at the current price levels. Sao Paulo is more expensive than New York City and Rio is getting there. Porto Alegre and Curitiba and the north of Brasil are a lot cheaper, but not too many tourists are going to venture there and 90% of the international business in Brasil is in Sao Paulo.