carrotjuice

I believe, if one is lucky enough to get 875 AM per draw, the limit at 80 draws = 70,000 AM!

kaka

i managed to get my SCB stardard CC annual fee waived. then again, i've got their plat card and a mid-tier banking account...

Gambler

SCB has waived the annual fee on my plat card every year without fail despite having no other banking relationship with them and not even spending much on the card itself.

percysmith

Banks axe fee waivers on cards
Credit-card holders hit with the tab after banks axe fee waivers
Maria Chan
26 September 2009
South China Morning Post

Credit-card holders have enjoyed a free lunch in the form of annual fee waivers for a decade. But now they are getting hit with the tab, especially those who do not have extensive relationships with their banks.

Technically, banks have long levied annual fees on their credit cards, ranging from a few hundred dollars to more than HK$10,000 a year, depending on the card. But it is an open secret that many lenders waive the fee to entice new customers, and continue to suspend the charge to keep them.

Existing cardholders can almost always get their bank to renew the fee exemption when they call and threaten to cut up their cards. But that may no longer be the case as bank earnings decline in the global downturn.

Mr Chan, a white-collar worker in the city, holds a Standard Chartered Bank Platinum card and has enjoyed an annual fee waiver for the past 13 years - until recently that is.

"I noted there was a HK$1,800 annual fee charge on my credit card statement recently," he said. "I asked the bank for a fee exemption, but the staffer only proposed to cut the fee in half, then offered me four coupons to Ocean Park or, as an alternative, an electric massage device."

In the past, Chan said he had been asked to pay the annual fee a few times when the waiver expired, but he successfully obtained a waiver within minutes when he rang the bank. This time, the bank accepted his cancellation of the card instead of extending him a full fee waiver.

He said it was his only credit card and he used it for most of his spending, amounting to at least HK$15,000 a month. He paid off the card punctually through an automatic payment, and he did not use any of the bank's other services.

A spokeswoman for Standard Chartered said there had been no policy change or any tightening of the rules on card fees.

Whether the bank extended the fee waiver was determined case by case and depended on card spending, the customer relationship and other factors, she said. For some cards, like Standard Chartered's Manhattan card, the bank stated clearly that customers would enjoy fee waivers if their spending achieved certain levels.

But Chan's case is not an isolated one.

Mr Ng, a teacher who has used a Citibank credit card for several years, said he usually got an extension of the fee waiver easily. But not this time. He said he threatened to cut his card up if he did not get a full fee waiver, but the bank accepted his cancellation without making any other offer. A Citibank spokesman also said the bank had not changed its policy. There might be various reasons for a customer to receive a fee waiver, such as their spending behaviour or their overall relationship with the bank.

HSBC, Hang Seng Bank, BOC Credit Card (International) and DBS Bank (Hong Kong) all said they had not changed their policies on credit card annual fees. Many banks offer a perpetual fee waiver on certain types of credit cards.

However, some cardholders feel something has definitely changed.

Miss Tsang has held a Manhattan Gold card for 17 years and had enjoyed an annual fee waiver all along. On a few occasions, she was asked to pay the annual fee, but she obtained the waiver again immediately when she rang the bank.

But last month, she discovered the bank charged her a HK$600 annual fee on her monthly card statement. And the bank employee with whom she spoke on the phone took a firm stance, at least initially.

"All banks are doing the same, we are not taking the lead," Tsang quoted the staff member as saying. She said the employee countered with a proposal to cut the fee to HK$300 and offered her film tickets. Only after she rang a few days later saying she wanted to cut up the card did she receive a full fee waiver.

Billy Mak Siu-choi, an associate professor at Baptist University, suggested some banks might be tightening their policies as fee income fell from their wealth management business due to the downturn.

"When they have no additional income streams, it is natural for them to look at cost control," he said. He added that it was expensive for banks to maintain a card if the cardholder seldom used it or paid off the balance, especially if they did not use any other bank services.

Mak did not rule out the possibility that some banks had tightened their card fee rules as part of a global business policy in the face of rising credit card delinquencies in the United States and Europe.

A veteran banker who knows the card business well said banks always reviewed their card portfolios, determining which customers brought in more value to the banks. Some banks might charge annual fees to cardholders who had low transaction volumes and few other relationships with the bank.

"Banks have to look at profitability, they cannot price at a loss," the banker said, adding it was not easy for banks to earn a high level of interest income from credit cards because of higher costs and a fall in borrowing.

Mak said since many people had more than one card, they should consider retaining only the one or two that had the most fringe benefits and on which fees were reasonable.

The banker said that if the cardholder also banked with the issuer they could usually enjoy the waiver.

Still, many credit card holders are likely to agree with Tsang, who does not have any other business with the bank that issued her card. "I got a feeling that I am a customer that the bank no longer needed," she said.

christep

Copyright? Who needs it eh?

percysmith

Credit card points to Asia Miles transfer times migrated to post #4 of http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/catha...l#post17816720

percysmith

I don't think a non-local merchant is always necessary; Cathay billing USD (for clearing my Redemption Group list) is considered an overseas spending transaction for BEA http://www.hkbea.com/FileManager/EN/...686/e-tc-1.pdf

percysmith

Just found out something wicked about SCB's Mastercard.

A friend of mine just paid for his UK distance learning uni tuition fees using his SCB MC. The uni billed in HKD.

My friend got billed $400 extra on his $50K payment. It turns out SCB imposes a 0.8% surcharge on overseas billers billing in HKD, which it claims to be a reimbursement of a fee on such payments from Mastercard http://www.standardchartered.com.hk/...ge.pdf#page=15

Manhattan also has a similar fee - not amazing given they're a SCB subsid http://www.manhattancard.com/service_charges_core.pdf

But not all Mastercard-issuing HK banks have that fee:

HSBC - no: http://www.hsbc.com.hk/1/PA_1_3_S5/c...fs.pdf#page=11
BEA - no: http://www.hkbea.com/FileManager/EN/...2/c&g_fees.pdf
BoC - ambiguous: http://www.boci.com.hk/bocci/agt/VISA-BACK.pdf "MasterCard transactions effected in currencies other than Hong Kong dollars which are simultaneously converted into Hong Kong dollars at an exchange rate determined at the time of transaction" (what if the biller bills HKD without reference to a GBP price?)
Fubon - yes: http://www.fubonbank.com.hk/web/doc/sh_feecc_e.pdf
Mevas - yes: http://www.mevas.com/pdf/mev_fee_16_e.pdf
CCB Asia Finance - yes: https://www.ccbaf.com/eng/terms_conditions.html


Another reason to avoid MC and SCB.


Edit 13 Oct 11: New BoC wording noted:
http://www.boci.com.hk/bocci/agt/VISA-BACK.pdf
(http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=5987&p=1)

"MasterCard transactions in Hong Kong dollars incurred outside of Hong Kong will be imposed a reimbursement charge of 0.95% (inclusive of the reimbursement charge levied by MasterCard at the rate of 0.8%) which shall be debited to your account."

Now this means amounts collected by overseas cos in HKD (e.g. Paypal Pte in Singapore) will incur the 0.95% reimbursement charge.

theworld

Actually pretty much every card company passes this on. For example you have said no to HSBC, but if you read the small print:

"Card transactions (except for RMB credit cards) which are effected in currencies other than Hong Kong dollars (for a Hong Kong dollar card) and US dollars (for a US dollar card) will be debited to the Card Account after conversion into Hong Kong or US dollars, as appropriate, at a rate of exchange determined reference to the exchange rate adopted by Visa/MasterCard/JCB on the date of conversion plus 0.95% imposed by the Bank and a fee of 1% charged by Visa/MasterCard/JCB to the Bank. (effective 1 April 2010)"

percysmith

The quote applies to transactions processed in non-HKD only, not HKD transactions outside HK.

None charged by HSBC when my friend paid the previous semester with HSBC's MC (just checked with HSBC's CS - this is still valid).

theworld

Sorry, my bad, didn't read your post properly.

Connecta

Just received my Citi PremierMiles annual fee waiver letter without asking for it. Spending was around HKD 240K last year with a high percentage incurred overseas due to business travel expenses where our corporate AMEX has not been accepted by merchants.

However, the letter states that I can continue to enjoy the annual fee waiver by spending more than HKD 80K a year. Hope this helps for others as potential guideline when annual fee waiver starts with Citi PremierMiles.

--//--

I have as well applied for the Fubon Elite Platinum. Does anyone have experiences whether they have a similar policy beyond the 3 year annual fee waiver (provided that they don't cancel their mileage reward scheme prior to that)?

percysmith

Elite Platinum or plain Platinum? Both earn 4X overseas anyway (i.e. HK$3/mile).

Oh I should note the 1.85% foreign currency handling fee is a plus...everyone else is 1.95% except Public Bank at 1%

toplayer

Has the Elite actually been around for 3 years?

Btw, if you trade HK stocks the trading offer that comes with the Elite is by far the best miles accumulator I have come across in HK; even churning the account with large caps is worth it IMHO. I tried to get them to extend the 3 months period but they refused.

For the monthly lucky draws, just wondering if anyone here has hit the 20k jackpot since this was introduced? So far since March of the 20 entries I've had 3k 3 times an 2k 17 times... Much preferred the old 5k, at least it was attainable.

percysmith

Points deals for securities trading:
Fubon Elite Platinum: 100 pt per $1 brokerage paid for first 3 months http://www.fubonbank.com.hk/Elite/html/rewards_e.html
SCB Priority Banking: 500 pts per month per $100K investments incl stock kept at SCB http://www.standardchartered.com.hk/...id=pbhp-cal-en
BoCHK: 1 pt per $1,000 securities transacted http://www.bochk.com/web/common/mult...&fldr_id=30631

Brokerage charges:
Fubon's brokerage: 0.25%, $80 minimum http://www.fubonbank.com.hk/web/doc/sh_feessc_e.pdf
SCB brokerage: 0.20%, no minimum http://www.standardchartered.com.hk/...ce-charge.html
BoCHK brokerage: 0.25%, $100 minumum http://www.bochk.com/web/common/wide...es&fldr_id=499

Lets say you trade in HSBC plc shares. ~$80/share, 400 shares/lot = $32K
0.25% brokerage is just $80 (coincidence to match with share price).
So you'll earn 8,000 points on this transaction = 666.67 miles = $68 (using my latest $0.102 valuation of miles)

Compare that to:
BoCHK - same deal - 32pts = 2.67 miles...crap
SCB Priority Banking - 160 pts per month or 1,920 pts per year = 128 miles...also crap


However you're still incurring $80 of brokerage to earn $68 worth of miles. Worse if you count CCASS fees, SFC levies and other transaction costs that follow securities purchases/sales.
Your HSBC parcel has to only appreciate by 0.0375% to recover costs, any subsequent apprciation is pure profit. However, there's no guarantee your investment might not go down like my own parcel of HSBC shares that I bought in early March, only to recover after the promotion is over.