Dual-passport holder denied boarding
Apr 27, 2009, 4:05 am
#107
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold (OW Emerald) & Jet Airways - Thank goodness i never got started.......most awful FF program
Posts: 2,385
now now, it was just an explanation to explain nationality rules. i stuck to males as the laws for females can get a little sometimes becuase although eqaulity is preached all over but not for nationality rules (although i could be wrong)
but i do believe that man from austria named arnold gave birth once!
but i do believe that man from austria named arnold gave birth once!
Apr 27, 2009, 7:03 am
#108
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MAN, ARN
Programs: BA Gold, BD *S, VS Gold, AFKL Petro Club
Posts: 584
For the purposes of presidency, he was considered natural born because the Panama canal zone was under US control at the time. I'm unsure about children born to diplomatic corps/military parents abroad qualifying as natural born citizens.
Apr 27, 2009, 9:41 am
#109
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 54
If both your parents are American citizens, then you are a natural born American citizen, wherever that may be. Of course, there is paperwork to be done through the embassy, but what government related action is complete without just one more form to sign?
Apr 27, 2009, 10:43 am
#110
Join Date: May 2003
Location: TLL
Programs: OZ Diamond, BA Gold, Bonvoy Ambassador, HH Gold
Posts: 4,412
7 FAM 1131.6-2 Eligibility for Presidency
(TL:CON-68; 04-01-1998)
a. It has never been determined definitively by a court whether a person
who acquired U.S. citizenship by birth abroad to U.S. citizens is a natural-
born citizen within the meaning of Article II of the Constitution and,
therefore, eligible for the Presidency.
b. Section 1, Article II, of the Constitution states, in relevant part that “No
Person except a natural born Citizen...shall be eligible for the Office of
President;”
c. The Constitution does not define "natural born". The “Act to establish an
Uniform Rule of Naturalization”, enacted March 26, 1790, (1 Stat.
103,104) provided that, “...the children of citizens of the United States,
that may be born ... out of the limits of the United States, shall be
considered as natural born citizens: Provided that the right of citizenship
shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in
the United States.”
(TL:CON-68; 04-01-1998)
a. It has never been determined definitively by a court whether a person
who acquired U.S. citizenship by birth abroad to U.S. citizens is a natural-
born citizen within the meaning of Article II of the Constitution and,
therefore, eligible for the Presidency.
b. Section 1, Article II, of the Constitution states, in relevant part that “No
Person except a natural born Citizen...shall be eligible for the Office of
President;”
c. The Constitution does not define "natural born". The “Act to establish an
Uniform Rule of Naturalization”, enacted March 26, 1790, (1 Stat.
103,104) provided that, “...the children of citizens of the United States,
that may be born ... out of the limits of the United States, shall be
considered as natural born citizens: Provided that the right of citizenship
shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in
the United States.”
And McCain was an American Citizen because of this:
7 FAM 1131.9 Birth in Panama; Special Provisions
(TL:CON-68; 04-01-1998)
a. Congress has enacted special legislation governing the conditions under
which U.S. citizenship may be acquired by birth in Panama (see also 7
FAM 1120 for legislation relating to the Canal Zone). This legislation does
not apply to all children born in Panama, but only to those born to U.S.
citizens employed by the U.S. Government or the Panama Railroad
Company. Section 303(b) INA (8 U.S.C. 1403(b)) states that: Any
person born in the Republic of Panama on or after February 26, 1904,
and whether before or after the effective date of this Act, whose father or
mother or both at the time of birth of such person was or is a citizen of
the United States employed by the Government of the United States or by
the Panama Railroad Company, or its successor in title, is declared to be
a citizen of the United States.
(TL:CON-68; 04-01-1998)
a. Congress has enacted special legislation governing the conditions under
which U.S. citizenship may be acquired by birth in Panama (see also 7
FAM 1120 for legislation relating to the Canal Zone). This legislation does
not apply to all children born in Panama, but only to those born to U.S.
citizens employed by the U.S. Government or the Panama Railroad
Company. Section 303(b) INA (8 U.S.C. 1403(b)) states that: Any
person born in the Republic of Panama on or after February 26, 1904,
and whether before or after the effective date of this Act, whose father or
mother or both at the time of birth of such person was or is a citizen of
the United States employed by the Government of the United States or by
the Panama Railroad Company, or its successor in title, is declared to be
a citizen of the United States.
Apr 27, 2009, 10:45 am
#111
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,339
Apr 27, 2009, 11:49 am
#113
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold(OWE), QF LTG, MR Plat, IHG Spire, Hertz PC
Posts: 8,156
im guessing similar rules apply in the US:
In the UK, if your serving the crown abroad (diplomat, government business, military service etc etc), your child born abroad is considered the same as being born in the UK because you are serving the country and not abroad out of choice. This is very important because British Citizenship can only be transmitted abroad one generation..
eg. Daddy born and bred in the UK moves to South Africa. His son is born in South Africa and is British through descent but never moves to the UK. Now the South african born british son gives birth to a baby in SA, the Baby is not british as daddy was british through descent and never resided in the UK! but the baby has rights to move to the UK if SA born British dad takes up residence in the UK.
but with diplomats, it can be possible to have children abroad and due to postings all over the world, the child never resides in the UK but why should the childs child be potentially disadvantaged and deprived of citizenship. thats why people in government service childrens are considered being born in the homeland.
i think John McCain was born in Panama but was considered natural born as he was born to military parents and was thus eligable to run for president.
In the UK, if your serving the crown abroad (diplomat, government business, military service etc etc), your child born abroad is considered the same as being born in the UK because you are serving the country and not abroad out of choice. This is very important because British Citizenship can only be transmitted abroad one generation..
eg. Daddy born and bred in the UK moves to South Africa. His son is born in South Africa and is British through descent but never moves to the UK. Now the South african born british son gives birth to a baby in SA, the Baby is not british as daddy was british through descent and never resided in the UK! but the baby has rights to move to the UK if SA born British dad takes up residence in the UK.
but with diplomats, it can be possible to have children abroad and due to postings all over the world, the child never resides in the UK but why should the childs child be potentially disadvantaged and deprived of citizenship. thats why people in government service childrens are considered being born in the homeland.
i think John McCain was born in Panama but was considered natural born as he was born to military parents and was thus eligable to run for president.
It is possible to be born abroad and yet obtain British nationality and therefore passport and yet not work for the crown.
Last edited by Traveloguy; Apr 28, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Apr 27, 2009, 1:11 pm
#114
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold (OW Emerald) & Jet Airways - Thank goodness i never got started.......most awful FF program
Posts: 2,385
I don't really want to discuss British Nationality on this thread as this is really meant to be about US Nationality, suffice to say that your example above is actually incorrect.
It is possible to be born abroad and yet obtain British nationality and therefore passport and yet not work for the crown.
It is possible to be born abroad and yet obtain British nationality and therefore passport and yet not work for the crown.
Last edited by Prospero; Apr 28, 2009 at 3:48 pm Reason: Quotation edited to reflect amendment to post 113
Apr 27, 2009, 3:00 pm
#115
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold(OWE), QF LTG, MR Plat, IHG Spire, Hertz PC
Posts: 8,156
To complete the circle, I believe you will find that the SA son's baby will in fact be eligible to move to the UK through an ancestry visa. If that person then lives in the UK for 5 years they can then apply for indefinite leave to remain, and finally apply for citizenship and a passport.
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ukr...ngdomancestry/
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ukr...ngdomancestry/