LondonElite

To all the moaners above, maybe you should think about the state of your airline industry a little bit more.

If they are not in formal Ch 11 they are pretty close to it...why? Do a simple profit analysis:

Revenues are low because no one pays full fares, upgrade are rampant, miles are generously awarded (bottom line: a "something for nothing" culture)

Costs are high because no one really paid much attention to labour contracts and assumed that higher revenues would kick in when loyalty was assured through FF programmes. Ooops, didn't happen.

I've flown plenty on UA and BA. I'm not emotionally attached to either M+, EC, UA, or BA but it does not take a lot of research to figure out why US airlines are sweating it a bit more at the moment.

whmere

Wot. Using something you're not paying for? Fie! For shame.

LondonElite you are dead right about labour contracts, across the board. You are wrong about the revenues.

With decent labour contracts, most of the US airlines would be profitable or near it, even in these hard times, and would have been wildly so back in the good times.

A full fare domestic ticket here, as in the EU, is close in price (if not more expensive) than a 'business class' ticket. There are plenty of people who pay the balance (if there is one) to the Full F fare to guarantee a seat. When it comes to capacity and yield management: the BA approach is to move the curtain back and forth, the US one is to give space-available upgrades into a genuinely superior class.

Discretionary travel is down everywhere. That is why revenues are down. Not because everyone has suddenly started upgrading where they weren't before.

It is natural and logical that in a place where there is less competition (ie the UK), prices will hold firmer across the board during a slowdown, as non-discretionary travelers don't have much of a choice. The ability of an airline like BA to provide the same crappy seats for coach and business and not see their premium traffic collapse is evidence of this. So you can thank anti-competitive politicians, regulators and airline executives for BA's continued near-profitability. It has nothing to do with upgrade culture, and everything to do with competing in a tougher marketplace. Believe me, if BA had 4 full-grown, British, international and domestic carriers competing across the board with it, you'd see exactly the same thing. The fact is if you want to use a comprehensive flight network ex-UK right now you only have one choice.

I would be interested to see how much UK EC members 'moan' if in the name of an enhancement they divided your miles balances in half. The fact is this has not happened to you, it has to us. You have no right, therefore to criticise those to whom it has happened.

ScottC

I searched everywhere for this alleged US members bashing but I can't find it, care to point me to it??? What the past 20 posts iare about is some people saying this will be the end of BA, and some people disagreeing with that. I feel sorry for anyone who's losing out on the changes. Several airlines have pushed through changes that were deemed "the end of them" but that turned out not to be the case. If you feel offended then I offer my apologies though I have no idea why...

CT-UK

Well you got me on that one!

And yes I may agree with you about the FF programs being the downfall of US airlines (please don't tell anybody a UK member agreed with a NA member).

The UK is a very competative market for flights if you don't want to stick with one airline. Guys I work with never touch BA and are *A nuts. They have a great network(s).

Also If my mileage balance got cut in half I would be very pissed as it would go from 2500 to 1250 I always cash in when I have enough for a good reward for myself or my expensive to run wife.

whmere

A quick search comes up with 2 threads in which the socialist worker party puts it to the US.

Start with this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum15/HTML/003396.html

Then check out this one: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum15/HTML/003400.html

I agree with you, but these things are all relative. Here you could happily use SkyTeam, OneWorld, *A etc and not really be inconvenienced. From PHL, you can pick UA, US, AA to go pretty much anywhere you want and stick with the one airline. I made plat on AA last year in spite of doing all my international with BA, and PHL being a 60% US Airways hub. If you're in NYC, the choice is ridiculous (you can add CO & DL, plus a host of smaller airlines) It not that there isn't competition in the UK, just much less. If there was no competition in the UK, there would most likely be no EC at all.

Frequentflyer99

I once heard - does not mean I am saying it is true - that the real value to BA in the EC was the value of the mailing list of Silver and Gold members which it sells at a fat profit to third parties who want a sure way to contact apparent high net worth individuals. I dont know if this was ever true and maybe it is now more difficult under the Data Protection Act.

CT-UK

The first post above is a total piss take and I just read it agin quicly and I didn't notice any anti US stuff. The first naught comment was your calling Brits lazy but I guess that was also part of the piss take.

I can't believe I didn't comment on the second thread......oh well.

ScottC

Thay have a mailing list?? THEY don't even send me anything, let along any of their partners...

Anyone who's done direct marketing will know that an address isn't worth THAT much...

whmere

I'm sorry if I offended anyone no this, I'm getting the feeling that it may be getting taken more seriously than it was intended. I think a number of people will agree with my exasperation at some of the negative comments we have got back from non NA members. There is one poster on the first thread listed who makes a more serious comment. Likewise in the second one. I'm just wanted to point out that this has happened enough to be noticed, not make a comprehensive list of every instance.

Primarily, I had hoped never to see this thread pop up again... but then here I am posting to it.

You are correct about the lazy Brits bit, it was part of the joke. Anyway I am a Brit (just working here, believe it or not in Horsham, PA) and so can happily indulge in our favourite national pastime: self-abuse (read into that what you will )

ScottC

Nobody is offended

At least not YET

mktozd

So what is the record thread length?

virtualtroy

Quick question: the book states 220 tier points in J and 330 in F for UK/Australia flights. How about if you break your flight in BKK / HKG / SIN or change to a different flight number? Does it change the accrual to 120 / 180 per sector or is it the set rate quoted above?

[tier points substituted for miles :-)]

[This message has been edited by virtualtroy (edited 07-28-2003).]

Fraser

virtualtroy, I think you mean tier points, but I don't know sorry. I hope some regular Oz hacker can help you..

Disco Volante

These changes are clearly disastrous

Petrus

Next time, please just link to the 12 year old thread in the current discussion about recent changes. Threads older than 2 years are not to be revived according to FT house rules. @:-)

Closed.