TheAberdonian

Can't agree more.

Roger

Not sure if it's the reason but that section is controlled by Swiss Railways and is available to holders of Swiss rail cards (GA, etc).I grew up being told that I had an absolute right to enter the UK as a UK citizen and that Immigration (or Border Farce or whatever) just needed to check my right. Were the people you met overstepping the mark for dramatic effect, I wonder.

kanderson1965

I am quite sure that was the case, to be fair most of the time they are ok, but there is always the few who think that a uniform gives them the right to act as they please.

WeAreFlyingHigh

I despise the current situation. The UK border needs to be revamped, not to the complete open borders idea 'let's welcome whoever whenever' idea favoured by Guardian readers, but the harsher borders used in Australia.

I've been transiting through UK airports to see a huge line by the voluntary 'declare' area. There's weren't many customs officials working so they just told everyone to walk through the green channel regardless of what they had in their bags. There's been similar at immigration to reduce queues. We are at the point where we do not know who is entering the UK or what they are bringing in with them. No wonder the UK is increasingly a base for crime.

WilcoRoger

Really? Google "iron curtain" for a starter.

dddc

Sorry I'm confused. Just back from a trip there and I can't see too many differences.

-Both countries require Advanced Passenger Info.
-All pax entering Australia fill in a customs card.
-Non EU pax entering UK fill in a immigration card.
-Both have e-gates and in both cases I'd cleared within 10 minutes of getting off the plane (both cases had very long walks).
-Australia has the customs check that is more for prohibited biological substances than duty free goods.

Does Australia have a tougher image because of that TV show?

WeAreFlyingHigh

No, there's a similar UK TV show.

-Australia has a tougher system with regards to who can and cannot obtain a visa.
- Permanent residence in Australia is harder to obtain.
- Penalties for breaching customs conditions in Australia are stricter.
- Australia actually has a system to monitor who enters and exits the country.
- Australia requires incoming passenger cards for nearly all pax.
- A point system is far fairer IMO to an open door to EU pax and a quantitative approach to non-EU pax. I like Australia's qualitative approach.

In addition to this there's the political line taken against illegal immigration, deportation, and numbers (again I prefer Australia's approach to it)

Dan72

Would love to hear how you made that suggestion 'politely'. But of course their job is not to help people, but manage the UK border. They should do so with courtesy, but quite often doing their job will be the opposite of helping people.

More generally, when it comes to the role of border staff, people can get quite nimby. People that are keen that the border be managed robustly, often take exception to any challenge to the exercise of their right. When of course that is what border security is about, challenging people's claim so that it can be verified.

Calchas

Australia is an island. The UK shares a permeable land border with another country. There are many houses straddling the line. Attempting to introduce systematic checks there could literally start a civil war.

Northern Ireland has also made it abundantly clear to Whitehall they will not stand for a pseudo border for persons travelling within the UK between NI and GB.

See above. Also, what purpose does filling in some paperwork really serve? For flights, ferries and train arrivals and departures, advanced passenger information is already communicated to the UK government and for arrivals except from Ireland and the British Islands passports are systematically checked.

Very unlikely to be permitted without leaving the European Free Trade Area. If you want to argue for that it's your prerogative but I would be surprised if on balance it turned out to be an economically successful policy.

WeAreFlyingHigh

So is Britain? NI should be issued an ultimatum to police the border (12ft high fences stretch across most of the NI border due to terrorism anyway) or face being cut off from mainland Britain. The USA do a better job at managing their border with Canada than Britain does. The US-Canada border is longer than the NI-Ireland border. The whole idea about not being an island national is nonsense.

Most of the illegal, and low-quality immigration, enter Britain by airports. The problem in large part comes from not keeping track of who enters from airports or who exits. Being on a frequent flyer forum when was the last time you passed immigration exiting the UK? With OLCI increasingly common how often do you pass through an airport without showing your passport? We have a system where an unknown number of people with unknow identities enter Britain and stay for as long as they like without us even knowing when/if they leave. Does this not sound like a ludicrous situation to be in to you?

IPS's are money makers. Pax fill out the cards and undergo customs checks. If they have lied on the cards they are fined. They're the travel equivalent of speeding/parking fines.

I wouldn't necessarily say leaving the EU would be a bad thing but neither is a renegotiation of grounds. Leave the political union but stay in the economic area. EU immigration is political vanity project anyway.

Calchas

I don't know if that's serious—if it is, there's not much I can do with that perspective other than disagree! I was not in favour of the Scots leaving and I would not be in favour of the NI leaving either.

So no one keeps track of this but you're sure it comes from airports? I thought they were walking through the chunnel at night?

What do emigration controls really achieve? There is already a record of passengers going out of the country by air, rail and sea. It's just another pointless queue to keep some people employed, and another excuse to ask me about my private business which is not the State's concern.

A small number of people do leave over land in NI without telling the UKBF, and they do—as an American friend of a friend learnt recently during an early-morning knock on the door—notice that your entry and exit doesn't match up.

On domestics, I don't bring any ID. That doesn't change if I go to a desk. On international flights, your passport should be checked at some stage to confirm it's valid for arrival; it will be checked at the gate if it wasn't checked elsewhere. Perhaps this is relaxed for EU flights, I always have my passport at the ready but I'll try not to show it proactively next time and get back to you.

Let's say we agree. I don't understand what you propose to do about it. We already have border controls, everyone (with some small exceptions) is supposed to show a passport on entry. If there are persons bypassing these controls somehow, giving them a paper form isn't going to help and nor is imposing an exit check, which could be presumably bypassed with similar ease. Even if it weren't, by the time they decide to go home it's too late!

There are some lapses but the fines imposed by UKBF when an airport screws up are pretty high.

Right, and the revenue from fines is expected to outweigh the administrative costs of all this paper processing? The Home Office cannot even issue passports on time. Presumably these illegal immigrants have the capital to pay these fines as well? How will they prove anyone is lying—if you already know people are being dishonest about their purpose, arrest them on entry without waiting for a form, surely. It's just another way to delay and irritate frequent travellers for no real purpose at all.

I will concede that perhaps the customs lines should have more officers consistently present.

Frankly, given the political situation, I think the French and German contingent would simply not accept that position—my feeling is, if it costs their trade they would take the hit against the risk of precipitating further disintegration. But that's another debate.

'andad

I agree. I have always found the UK border staff to be polite, professional, and efficient, without exception.
However, entering the US many times the officials have always assumed that I am up to something, and that I want to live in America too. I am sure many people do as it's not a bad place, but I have family here, as well as a return ticket.

paulwuk

As a UK citizen, I've had nicer treatment in the U.S. then in the UK. Queues are normally longer in the states, but they're often friendly.

Todays entry at MAN of an SN flight was rather depressing, long queues for EU citizens, but 2 people dealing with the non-EU citizens, who had a queue that reached a maximum of 3 people over the 10 minutes I was waiting. This was a good day for whatever terminal I landed ex-BRU though, the lengthly walk from the plane to the border had signs implying immigration queues could be longer than T5 on a bad day!

I was also illegally detained by the police playing "yes Mrs May" off a domestic flight a few months ago. Same mentality that insists on metal detectors for eurostar. But hey, all our woes can be landed squarely at the door of those "undesirable low quality poles" that the faily mail keeps telling us about.

Personally I have nothing per-se against the idea of leaving the EU, however the lies that the daily mail spreads about immigration really piss me off, as they lead to pointless policies which aversely affect me, and all of us that occasionally travel abroad.