CarolSW

At the risk of:
-leaving myself open to flames from folks who will question my sense and good judgement, AND
-jinxing this planned trip that has yet to occur....

...I thought it might be interesting to a few here to share my story as it is unfolding. I am a part of a group of Americans who have made arrangements with globalexchange.org to visit North Korea hopefully next month - April 2008. We are a group of women from various backgrounds who try to make connections with women of different cultures in an effort to promote friendship and understanding. I am not a seasoned traveler, in fact had never been abroad before my first trip with this group in 2005 to Libya. Now we are scheduled to visit North Korea for 7 days in early April. I am a teacher, specializing in special education, autism in particular. I have no expectations of seeing special education or even people with handicaps in North Korea, as what I have researched and learned tells me they will not be visible or present in Pyongyang. But I must say I had those same low expectations when traveling to Libya and I was wrong. It remains to be seen what we will encounter in North Korea, though we had a small peek with the recent visit of the New York Philharmonic there. It also remains to be seen if we will even actually get there, since the DPRK is known for making things complicated. As of right today, the DPRK has apparently approved visas for 8 of our group of 11. I am waiting to hear from our group leaders if 8 of us will indeed proceed with this trip, and if I will be one of the 8.

I posted this because as a newbie to FlyerTalk, I have very little of value to share yet with the forums, but it ocurred to me that this might be a story worth telling so I'm taking a leap. If there is interest, I will keep you posted on the status of this trip, and certainly post a trip report afterwards. The 2 trip reports posted previously by paulkarl and bensyd about North Korea were extremely helpful to me.

CarolSW

UAL Traveler

Welcome to FT As for me, I am certainly interested hearing about your experiences. The only time is was "in" North Korea, was 15 years ago when I was up in Panmunjom, and literally walked around the meeting table in the Military Armistice Commission building, which straddles the demarcation line. Someday, I would like to see what the interior of the country is like.

Good luck with your travels...

Jamoldo

Please do write up a report (or PM met) about your experiences. I'm definitely looking into going sometime in the future

bensyd

Carol, I visited NK in September 06, it will be quite an experience. I guess I would not be expecting to see much and you should expect that everything you do/see will be heavily orchestrated and planned. Don't expect any meaningful insights into the ways that people really live. The NK's are at first a bit stand offish(years of propaganda about Western imperialists will do that) but there is an overwhelming sense of curiosity and if you make the effort they are a very friendly group of people who are genuinley proud of their country.

If you have any other questions I'd be happy to help you out

trilinearmipmap

Please do not take this as a flame.

North Korea is the worst human rights abuser on the planet. The North Korean dictator is a classic sociopath who has created a police state that puts all others to shame.

Do an internet search for the details, suffice it to say that complaining about a food shortage is enough to land one's entire family, including preschool age children, in a concentration camp. Anyone who escapes from North Korea will have to live with the fact that in retribution his entire family has been executed.

Foreign tourists are a source of foreign exchange for North Korea. Income from western tourists supports this regime, its military, and its police state apparatus.

Eventually this regime will crumble. It will happen sooner if western tourists don't spend their money there. Find another place to visit.

bensyd

So whats the answer then? Leave them isolated from the rest of the world? That has not worked 50+ years of rule are testament to that fact.

The reality is that the NK regime is not dependent on tourism to prop itself up c.1200 Western tourists isn't enough to support the Dear Leaders grand lifestyle, but there is a definite gain to be made by engaging with the people of NK. The English guides who organised the tours said that when they first started going to Pyongyang children used to run away because of what they had been told about Westerners, but that is now rare, although it still occurs in country areas.

NK have been told lies about Westerners for half a century, given that they are unable to leave the country except of diplomatic business, or in very limited work related circumstances how are those misconceptions that they harbour about us ever to be changed unless it is pre-empted by us?

Things are changing very slowly in NK but there is evidence that it is finally opening the door and letting the faintest bit of light in (the recent philharmonic tour is evidence of that) and Kim has recently said that he was a fan of the market reforms made by Deng Xiao Ping, of course it is early days and I wouldn't hold my breath.

CarolSW

Thanks for all the replies - I appreciate the input.

bensyd - your trip report and pictures from '06 have been very helpful. Thank you very much for taking the time to write and post them. Hope I will be able to contribute something similar.

trilinearmipmap - your opinion is noted, and, for the record, not unlike many I have received from those I know. I will say that I have done much research and alot of soul-searching before making the decision to attempt this trip. I am aware of the reported conditions in the DPRK for the ordinary man, nor do I expect to even encounter the "ordinary man" in Pyongyang as they are not permitted to live there. But much like the recent visit of the New York Philharmonic, I believe any crack in that Bamboo Curtain is worth pursuing and probing. I have no illusions that I can change the world, yet I do know I will have a greater understanding and connection to caring what happens there if I go. Thanks for offering your differing view in a way that did not make me feel flamed.

I expect to hear sometime today if the trip is on or not. We shall see....

CarolSW

CarolSW

I have learned that I will be a part of the smaller group from my organization who will be going to North Korea next month. Originally 11 of us were planning to travel, along with a Chinese guide from Global Exchange. DPRK would only issue visas to 8, including the guide, so we are shrinking our group to 7, and I have been chosen to be one of the lucky 7. I am grateful.

bensyd - if you will indulge me, I'm sure I will have some questions for you as I make final preparations. The pictures from your trip were very enlightening. Again, thank you for sharing.

CarolSW

bensyd

Happy to help out with any questions you might have. The most important thing is to go into there with an open mind. You won't change ideas that have been indoctrinated into them for a lifetime in a week, but you can show that we are a friendly bunch with an interest in their country/life. Remember that Kim Il Sung is still held in extremely high esteem (almost as a god) by many NK's and certainly by the ones you will be meeting, but they will not try and "brainwash" you into their beliefs and similarly expect the same courtesy from you.

Try and take pictures of your family and your house etc to show the people you will meet there will be a genuine curiosity from them into how you live and they will want to know about your family etc.

Also you may want to take small gifts to give although we may take such things for granted instant coffee moisturiser cigarettes chocolates even powdered milk are all very hard to come buy in NK and make great gifts to give guides and people you meet.

CarolSW

ben-

I will go into North Korea packing an open mind first and foremost. Without a lot of world travel under my belt, I have very few expectations of what this will be like. As I mentioned, my first trip ever overseas was to Libya, where I arrived alone at midnight in Tripoli to make my way through a throng of Arabic taxi-drivers and get to the hotel where my traveling companions, whom I had never met, were already ensconsed. I also mentioned I am a special education teacher. In hindsight I realized my experiences on that first overseas trip were not unlike what I imagine some of my friends with autism encounter every day as life in a "strange land". I'm a better teacher for it too.

Was wondering your ideas on these things:

1) We're flying into Pyongyang from Shenyang China. I know we will not be able to take cell phones, but since we surely will need them at other parts of our journey, at what point do they confiscate them, and how do you get them back?

2) Your pictures were great, so I know you made use of a digital camera. Did you have to ask permission of your guide before taking every shot?

3) No internet (nor email) - right? Is it possible to take my laptop into NK for use in journaling and storing my pictures? I am also wondering about my iPod. Was thinking about getting a Kindle reading device for this trip too, but they are back-ordered now the demand is so high.

4) The outdoor "dance" you pictured showed Korea women in very colorful garb. What is their typical dress? Did you encounter many women at all (besides the ones in the basement nightclub of your hotel!!) ?

5) Are there any Korean phrases that would be helpful to have learned? How much English is spoken?

6) Your tips are appreciated. I am making a small photo album of family and home pictures to take with me. I found that such a thing bridged the language gap in Libya too. As for small gifts - are there not tight controls on what I can give the people I encounter?

Thanks for your patience with my questions. Like my friends with autism, I like a certain amount of predictability to be comfortable! Although I know this trip will be anything BUT predictable, whatever I can learn up front will help me be prepared for the lessons in store.

CarolSW

bensyd

Firstly, don't worry there will be no throng of taxi drivers. FNJ operates 5?? or so scheduled flights a week and your transport will be arranged, iirc there were taxis at our hotel but they wouldn't let you leave the hotel without your government guide, so your not going to be hussled at the airport.
After x-raying your bag/searching it customs will usually ask if you have mobile phone. If you do just hand it over they will give it to your guide who will have it locked up and will give it back to you on departure. TBH our group all left our mobile phones in Beijing one less thing to worry about so if you are returning to Shenyang then maybe leave it at the hotel there or something.
No, the guides will tell you when you can take a picture and then you are allowed to snap away at will. You are not allowed to photograph while you are driving around and its best to keep your camera away, after a few days you will notice that the guides will build up a certain level of trust and you will relax abit more and will allow you take photos more often. Remember if your a journalist and suddenly your photos appear on BBC/CNN then its the guides who will loose their jobs (and perhaps more) so there cautiousness is understandable. Also if you are taking the train out (I would recommend the NK trains are very clean/comfortable and run all the way to Beijing much better than the Chinese trains and its a great way to see the country) then NO PICTURES on the train at all and for landing at the airport, for some reason you are allowed to take a picture of the terminal from the plane when your walking down the steps but you can't stop on the tarmac and take a picture back toward the plane. When we got to customs at the border they went through our digital cameras to check this and deleted photos that someone in another group had taken of the train ride.

No internet is correct....They do have an intranet which we were shown on a tour at a university but unless you can read Korean this will be of little use. Emails were available at our hotel from memory it was 5 euros to send 200kb all emails were read before being sent and there was no way of getting replies. I wouldn't imagine any sort of problems with Laptops but dont be surprised if they want to go through it and check. I'm not sure I'd be lugging in with a all sorts of electronic devices as a tourist it is likely to raise a few eyebrows I would leave the lap top etc at home the strict rule is no radio equipment (mobiles sat phones radios tv etc) but I would take as little in as possible. I-pods are fine and are good for some of the road trips you may take.


Generally the women on the street dress much the same as the men conservative not in their traditional dress which is what you saw in those pictures (it was Independance Day that day)

Alot of the guides are women our lady guide at the captured US "spy ship" was also a woman and a die hard anti-imperialist too, I think I lost count of the number of times she referred to Americans as "Yankee big noses", but generally that is not the attitude of the people we met. We had a fantastic female guide at Juche Tower who spoke extremely good english and was very confidant and enjoyed chatting, probably to practice her English.



English is not widely spoken, although we were told everyone learns English at school I'm not sure how much of that is communist ideal and how much is communist reality. If you just learn the basics "hello", "please", "thank you" then you should be fine, your guides will speak fluent English and can always be called upon to translate. Korean I actually found quite difficult to learn most words even like hello are formed of 4 or 5 syllables.

No you can give whatever you want really obviously things you can buy at Radioshack are out, and I wouldn't be handing out American flags but simple things are great even if you bring a few chocolates from home or small sweets to give kids, if in doubt just ask your guide. I would generally ask before you started interacting with children you will get alot of stares from them but they are generally quite interested, if your blonde then doubley so, for some people outside of the major cities they may have never seen a blonde person before. Remember also when you are receiving or giving in Korea (well most of Asia really) you should do so with both hands if you do it with one hand it is considered rude.


You will be fine, I have been to about 40 countries and NK is about as safe as I have felt anywhere, it will be abit "bizzare" sort of like a twilight zone experience you will be amazed that in the world as it is now interconnected where news travel across the world in seconds that there still exists a country where you can't get Coca-Cola die hard soccer fans have not heard of David Beckham and news of 9/11 was a week late being broadcast.

mapu

Try this link for some basic Korean words and phrases:

http://joonsfamily.com/index.php?showtopic=7290

MilesDependent

I was in NK April 2007. An amazing place - like another dimension. But you know that already. As for laptops, I enquired, and was specifically told that I was not permitted to take a laptop into North Korea. Ipods, no problem. I remember showing my Ipod to one of guides and he thought it was the coolest thing he'd ever seen!

CarolSW

THANKS to all who have answered questions and given me advice on the proposed trip to North Korea. It is now less than 2 weeks from when we are due to leave, and still we do not have DPRK visas. The original 11 of us who committed to go was whittled down to 8 two weeks ago when that was the limit we were given by the Global Exchange guide who is working with the UN ambassador to DPRK. 3 folks were thus dropped from the list, but I felt fortunate to still be among the chosen. Yesterday we heard that our 8 visas have not yet approved, with no indication on when and if they will. The group of women I am travelling with feel we will need confirmation at least a week before departure or we will bail on the plans, so there is a very good chance this trip will not come off after all. I am trying to remain optimistic and flexible because it appears that nothing is certain when dealing with a journey to such a destination, but I also realize that is a big part of traveling as a whole.

A side note is that my cost of this trip is being paid for my a generous sponsor who is a founding memeber of the group. As a teacher, I could never afford to do this on my own, and I am very grateful to my benefactor. I did however, attempt to upgrade to my coach ticket for the 12+ hour trans-Pac flight. Not being a frequent-flyer, I certainly had no status or miles, though I followed some advice here at FT and got a jump start on membership into the United Mileage Plus loyalty program. However, I resorted to purchasing an SWU on eBay for this trip, which has been confirmed on my online reservation. Now, with the trip in jeopardy, I will have to look into what will happen to that "gifted" upgrade if I have to cancel my flight. Oh what a tangled web we weave, right? oy

CarolSW

bensyd

Can't help with the SWU question but regarding the visa issue above. I wouldn't be too worried that you have not received your visas yet. I didn't actually receive my visa until the day before I left for NK and this is fairly normal practice. We were given a "group visa" which had all our names and details on one sheet of paper and the first person through (me) would give it to immigration and the last in our group would take it back as he went through immigration this visa was not issued until we were all in Beijing which was the Wednesday and we left on the Thursday morning.

Once all the papers have been filled out which doesnt take too long the NK's have a fairly quick turnaround time (not surprising really).