BuildingMyBento

Could they pay you in USD? The MYR has tanked this year. However, I'd be remiss if I didn't say it was already cheap before 2015. Plus, you'll now have Air Asia's base (KUL) to both delight and frustrate your traveling plans.

Also, no need to get a car. Although roads are generally in good shape - more so out of the downtown area - drivers tend to make up their own rules. Wouldn't recommend taxis in KL either, so get used to Uber.

I've visited KL as a tourist about six times over the past ten years, but it's rather short on tourist attractions...there's a lot of shopping (don't care) and decent nightlife, but the best part about the capital is the food.

invisible

You have not said the most important - will your employer pay for the rent (and/or car) and anything else?

(Please read disclaimer at the end of the message)

One very important thing which a lot of people overlook but after personally encountered (after relocation) case of medical coverage - I would start the possible relocation discussion with this - please request from your employer all the information about your and your wife's health insurance coverage during your assignment there.

DO NOT sign anything until you read the coverage and consult with local resident expats. The last thing you want is to be airlifted in US or Singapore because inability to provide medical services there.

Just my own (ongoing) personal experience: outpatient coverage provided by the company is $800 per year per family. I had to go thru two MRI and about about 10 doctor appointment last 1.5 month. My bills at this moment are >$5500. If you ask why we would not get insurance with outpatient coverage, I will tell that quotes started $700/mo per person.

She need to get in touch with my wife who would be her colleague but with about 20 years of experience. In short - people with Western education and experience are in great demand, but it really depends where you end up. Unfortunately in a lot of places management, especially composed from locals show behavior which was common in States back in 50s-60s. Example - on second week at her job, when my wife went to her management to get clarifications regarding certain procedures, she got reply: "in your age you should know this".

Where is the office? Are you going to have a car? If not, is there a convenient way to access office via train?

Have you tried to go to www.xe.com and do some math? 160K MYR is US $36000 and 300 000 is $67 000.


Now, if your employer is not going cover your rent and/or car, then take to total income you are expected to make and be quite conservative (don't count you wife's potential income because it is absolutely no guarantee if she finds job there or even wants to work). From that income subtract:

- amount of local taxes you need to pay
- amount of US taxes you might end up paying, unless you move right after new year and do not stay in US more than 30 days (read Publication 54 very carefully and get an accountant which has experience dealing with US citizens residing overseas)
- your monthly rent and associated utilities
- supplemental insurance for you and your wife
- monthly expenses you plan to have and their type (please note - if you expect to maintain the same lifestyle as in US and/or eat the same food as in US then it will cost you more, sometimes way more)
- monthly savings you plan to have
- unplanned expenses/etc

And yes, put above together and it will give you answer - do it makes financial sense to move or not.

However if you are not looking for move from financial prospective - well, go ahead.

Disclaimer - I have been living in Singapore for last four years. While have been in KL in number of times, I would select Singapore over KL in split second for number of reasons.

Denolloyd

Many thanks for the feedback. Still researching quite a few items on my end. comments below.

Unfortunately, no. They will not be able to pay me in USD.

My employer will not be providing housing, and will not be providing a vehicle. I will have a salary, and be expected to handle all expenses once settled after one month on my own.

The office is located in Jalan Ampang. A colleague of mine which recently moved from KL has recommended Mont Kiara, although it looks as though I would not be able to walk to work from there, which I think I'd prefer.

From a health insurance perspective, I will take a deeper look at options there.

In all, after looking at expenses I'd incur residing in KL, in addition to a few liabilities I will have remaining at home, I'd need to be at the upper end of things from a salary perspective. Interesting...

invisible

Let me translate this - you will be on 'local contract', treated like everyone else. No extra benefits, no package at all.


Honestly... if your income is not $100K i would not bother.

Once again, different case is when you want to move overseas just for 'experience' regardless of income situation, but I warn you - there was an article somewhere that 25% of marriages fail as a result relocation to overseas when there are unreleased expectations. I have personal example here in Singapore with our friends - they were supposed to relocate for 2 years, they underestimated expenses, their kids hated local school because they were not able to go to the private school, his wife could not find job. Result - they are back after a year, had to pay for relocation, they lost significant amount of money, he lost his job and at the end - they got separated.

Why I am saying all above - people generally have unwritten expectations when they used to live in a certain place. Those expectations most likely won't be in a new place.

As a result - it is very important for you (one) to know what really matters for you. Try to write down what is important for you when living in a certain place.

Are you for example OK if you take elevator on Friday evening, got stuck there and have to stay there till Monday morning because electrician does not work on weekends and you have to climb out from there on your own? Are you OK to see blood on stairs of a train station and it stays there over days? Are you OK to pay 2x-4x taxi fare just because you are foreigner and do not speak local language? List goes on. All those mentioned are real life examples.

Sorry for this lecture, no way I am trying to dissuade you from relocating. I just want to mention that number of people have unrealistic expectations when moving overseas and when they face reality, they will blame everything and everyone, expect themselves.

Denolloyd

Not a lecture at all. I posted there precisely for such feedback. I do appreciate your candor.

I fully agree, the right expectations must be set, and we are still working on that. From a salary perspective, I'd rather they at least keep my salary as is , but that is unlikely to happen, as the COL is quite a bit lower in KL. Will push on the negotiation though, I'll still have some USD liabilities to address. Still not 100%, and a yes from me would be very much financial. I cannot "lose" for the sake of international experience. Let's see where things go.

Aventine

You said you were comfortable in Tampa. I wouldn't leave comfort for KL. They don't seem to be paying enough to make it worth your while.

invisible

Good luck. If you decide to go, ask your wife to find and join 'Singapore Expat Wives' FB group - the group is for women only, they do not admit men. There are >10000 members there and one can get quite a useful information.

IAN-UK

I've just met up with expat friends in Hanoi and KL. One set is happy because of the experience alone (in Vietnam), the other happy only because of the (substantial) financial package. Both report real living costs (for expats) significantly higher than in the UK.

I think it's probably easy to underestimate how much it costs an outsider to live a comfortable life on a local salary abroad with no additional financial support, particularly where there are commitments back home.

If you are unable to negotiate a package of benefits (assistance with housing costs, health insurance, schools, trips home) then you might have settle for adapting to local conditions to a greater extent than you might wish.

It's a sensitive area. I don't pretend to advise, but urge you to look coldly at the alternatives.

invisible

And one has to be well aware what 'local conditions' mean...

Don't know situation in KL but in Singapore it would mean for example living in HDB and 'dine out' would mean to go to local hawker center. I'd say nothing about former, but I have nothing against the latter.

airsupply

I don't know what industry you are in but here is some salary information.http://http://www.kellyservices.com....%20e-guide.pdf

A relative of mine has looked at some teaching/fellowship opportunities in SE Asia and even those packages included some housing allowance, healthcare, relocation assistance and salary bonus upon completion. I would look into what your industry standard is if there is such a thing.
Obviously transition will be easier if you are more "go with the flow " kind of guy as there certainly will be an adjustment period.
And finally, would this job positively impact your future career prospects with significant pay raise possible in a future? If so, even with possible salary drop in KL look at it as an investment.
Just my 2 cents.

L Lam

Singapore is always more efficient and progressive, but expensive and small. KL is much cheaper and a little less efficient, but more space. You'll need a car in KL. Spore high end dining is more varied if you're thinking of Michelin star stuff but for day to day Asian food, KL is much less manufactured. As someone who has family in both, most agree KL is better for Asian food.

RM is fluctuating, so get paid in USD pls. Plenty of good value accomodation in KL for expats. Try Bangsar condos (and there are some large houses too) or Bukit Damansara (mainly large houses), these 2 areas are a short distance away. Bangsar always has more nightlife and restaurants, and fairly common to see non Malaysians walking about doing stuff, and there are sizeable long term expats with their own businesses here. Domestic help is available for those with kids who need drivers and maids.

City centre living makes travelling to work easier but not much for nice neighbourhoods. Most expats still prefer Bangsar/Bkt Damansara - singles might like city centre.

trueblu

Sound advice. Many/ most expats do it for the money...there are fairly mediocre doctors and teachers here making a packet at private institutions (and lots of competent people too). But not all expats are in it for the money. I took a substantial pay-cut to live in Beijing, and have no regrets. We love being here and I love my job too. Would I like to get paid more: yes! And that does effect how long-term sustainable the move is. But for less than 5 years, I would say it's not a huge issue (we plan on staying much longer than that).

But I agree, don't factor what it costs a local to live compared with an expat. We pay a very substantial part of my salary on rent, and much, much more than most of my colleagues, because we have different expectations of what is acceptable accommodation, especially if with family. Also, even occasional 'splurge' dining adds up, as do trips back home -- OP mentions quarterly trips tUS, which would be at least $3k and potentially more, for one person.

Life isn't just money, but it is certainly a factor for certain lifestyle choice. For the OP, it seems the move is less motivated by a real desire to live in another part of the world (his wife's reluctance speaks volumes to me) than corporate ladder issues. In which case, the offered salary sounds low. If you want to explore Asia and your wife is also up for the adventure together, then go for it!

tb

invisible

Don't know what situation looks like KL-US flights market, but until Sin $ depreciated, round trip flight to US was at least US $1000 and to my understanding Asia-US-Asia flights are always more expensive than US-Asia-US.

So for a quarterly flight to US I would put at least $4K per person budget - that's absolute minimum.

But $4K is not a big deal comparing to tax consequences. I think unless one plans to limit every trip to 5 days or less one should expect that they will have to pay taxes both in the local country and in US as well.

For US $60K income in MYR it would be 20% of that amount paid in Malaysia plus US fed tax rate from that $60K (like 12%), combined tax rate would be close to 32% - in other words, the same rate as if one would be making $150K income in California. This alone would be a deal killer for me.

Diplomatico

You really have to work at it to make living in Hanoi more expensive than living in the UK. Some people. Sheesh.

dsgtc0408

Sorry to be late to the thread, but as a definite reply, I wouldn't do it unless your employer is willing to pay you at about 35-40% premium above your current US salary converted to RM (ringgit Malaysia). If the paid salary range is as per what you pulled up from glassdoor, ie RM160-300K/year, then there are major issues with this "opportunity". The downside risk is substantial although some of the risk elements are murky.

The big one is that this is evidently a local position. If the local subsidiary cannot fill the position locally, you have to ask if it is because they can't find individuals with the necessary skills - or if because they're not paying enough thus they can't find the people! The reason why the local issue is important is because the Malaysia division seems like it's being run autonomously with little influence from HQ; in a worse case local management might literally be local with little experience managing staff that are from overseas. If the need is really so important that the local division needs to import talent from HQ, then they need to pay for it at the HQ rate, and HQ needs to provide you with a transition plan into the local division, as well as an exit program that will transition you back into HQ once the person (you) has done his job. Instead, what you are being told is that you need (in effect) to quit your US/Tampa position in order to take up this 'opportunity' in KL, and then when it's time to come home, you'll have to reapply to HQ as a new hire. These are just the basic aspects of this move; others, such as housing, lifestyle (mentioned in the other posts), tax planning/filing support, regular conversion of RM to USD to pay US domestic obligations (not mentioned), unexpected expenses (car purchase - I wouldn't live in KL without one, KL specifically and Malaysia in general is too spread out and public transport somewhat challenging), possibly language lessons (depends on the circles you operate in, but the less income you earn, the more contact you'll have with the locals, not all speak English) etc etc. The point I make is that you've been offered an opportunity (true) but one which carries substantial business and professional risk both in Malaysia and in the US which you aren't being covered for personally. As described, the company is doing this on the cheap and if things go pear shaped, you're out in the cold. On the other hand, you can stay in your current position, it will be in your comfort zone but at the same time you're not thinking about whether or not you might lose your job, either. If you stay put, when it's time to move on, move to a different company that also has international needs but which will give you proper expat support.

On the personal side, KL can be a nice place to visit as a tourist but know that as a place to live can be a bit challenging. Transport can be tough - Mont Kiara is nice but it's an expat enclave. Petty crime is also an issue; the effectiveness of local police is spotty. You should know that a foreign child attending the Mont Kiara International School was kidnapped for a ransom about a year or two ago - don't know the outcome but I do know that the expats in the area were jolted because crime had never really reached out in such a personal way before.

The funny part is that the company's need for your skill set places you potentially in a stronger bargaining position. If you said no, or no, but... they might sweeten the pot for you later by protecting you from some of the opportunity cost downsides I mentioned. Bottom line - find out the nature of the management at the subsidiary from the managing director level down to middle management. If there's a lot of locals at those two levels (even if the managing director is a HQ transplant), it's going to be really local style, meaning their ability to manage you as a foreigner is going to be weak.