Panam Clipper

If this is for folks who will only visit Argentina when the reciprocity fee is lifted, they may want to hold off for a while longer...

Siempre Viajando

Agree that Argentina is not Venezuela, but to answer your question, yes I think Argentina is THAT different. I read an interesting article a few months ago, probably in the Economist magazine, that stated the following: There are four kinds of country in the world---developed nations, developing nations, Japan and Argentina.

!!

Which is perhaps overstating it, but it's still an interesting point of view. Argentine society is astonishingly effective, perhaps uniquely so, at squandering its wealth despite the country's abundant natural resources, favorable climate, fairly advanced economy, decent infrastructure and functioning democratic institutions.

spainflyer

All true, Siempre –

I have also heard it said that Argentina is the only country to have gone from a developed nation to a developing nation.

But Argentine society seems remarkably adept at bouncing back after some major blows (the corralito put many families into poverty or semi-poverty, but Argentines are masters at working financial systems, no matter how disfunctional (the bicicleta, the reverse bicicleta, etc.).

Today’s La Nación has a front page article that shows how complex and twisted the present system of dual currency rates is (http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1733230-el-submundo-del-blue), and yet there are people making money within the system.

And all this is without mentioning the Argentine penchant for voting themselves rich. I have often thought how easy it must be to be a politician in Argentine. From Juan Domingo Perón to Madame Kirchner – promise everything, spend as much as possible, rail at all who oppose you, and deliver little or nothing. At least nothing long term.

The Germans got burned badly by inflation in the 1930’s and again in 1948, and they will never, ever elect a politician who even hints at inflationary policies. The Argentines have been burned by inflation many more times than the Germans, and yet they continue to elect politicians who promise projects and programs and giveaways that can only be financed through a functioning tax system with higher rates, or by borrowing and paying the debt with inflation. The Argentines invariably choose the latter, and then wonder (or maybe they don’t anymore) how they could have – as Siempre Viajando says—squandered the country’s abundant natural wealth and live far worse than their Chilean neighbors (and increasingly, their Uruguayan neighbors).

But, as EastBay 1K says, the idea that all this is somehow going to end in some sort of Zimbabwean crash and burn runs contrary to Argentine history. In Argentina tough times come and tough times go – remember the 1990s when Americans were told with a sneer “the dollar is worth nothing in Argentina” – and Argentines have learned to live with it all.

GUWonder

I'm no porteño, but I've been around the block and then some.

I would plan a visit for June to August 2015, without any hesitation related to the political and economic circumstances in play now and likely to be in play 9-12 months from now too.

Gaucho100K

Wise words from GUWonder.... EZE is a great place to visit now and this situation will remain so, with the added plus that the bargains are to be had - please see by below post as another price data point.

Gaucho100K

Above bolding and italics are mine.... to address the point Im trying to make.

While Argentina is indeed a functioning Democracy with all the relevant institutions, its the "functioning" part and its performance that is at debate. Formally, all the required institutions exist and "function", but in everyday life, the Executive has influence over other powers that would be unheard of in a more developed Country like any OECD member state. As Ive posted many times before, on paper and if you look at the laws, the bar is set VERY high in Argentina, and most of our laws remind you os Switzerland or Normay.... however, its more an issue of actual enforcement and how the different institutions operate that makes a HUGE difference.

As I learned as a young analyst in my first years as an IBanker.... on an Excel Spreadsheet, all and any investments are profitable.... the IRR is anything you want it to be. Real life will (many times) show you otherwise. I think this applies to Argentina in many, many ways.

Gaucho100K

For those that insist on the issue of the reciprocity fee... well its their own sorry loss because even if they do the math, the bargains right now are such that this fee is far less than a silly rounding error... even if you do the math like one very famous prolific poster that hails from a very large country/continent in the Southern Hemisphere...

For what its worth, I see ZERO chance that this government will do away with this reciprocity fee. While there is a chance that a new government would consider abolishing it, I don't think that this move will be a priority on its list of to do things once the new team takes the helm at the Casa Rosada.

Gaucho100K

So here is a real time check of prices in EZE. Im wrapping up a lunch at La Caballeriza in Las Canitas (Chenaut at Baez). I just had the "Almuerzo Ejecutivo", or what could be called a Lunch Special.

Here is the menu that Ive just enjoyed........

Starter (I had the grilled platter of Chorizo & Morcilla)
Main Course (I had the RibEye 250 grams)
Side Dish (I had the mixed salad)
Glass of House Red (nothing special, but still drinkable)
Dessert (I had the Chocolate Mousse)
Café Cortado or Tea to finish...

All the above yielded a bill of AR$118.-

OK, so here is the "catch".... the service/tip is not included.......

Please note that all the above steps/courses had various options to choose from, and while the main dish is a "moderate" cut of beef both the dessert and the starter are generous in terms of portion side. Full service is included, including an "amouse-bouche" and a full bread basket. While this restaurant is not a "High-End" establishment, its certainly not a budget or discount chain... perhaps the closest comparison I can think of would be the equivalent of an Outback Steakhouse that I know from my travels in North America and Asia.

Even if you used the current official exchange rate and paid with you credit card, doing the math with a 8.50 Peso to Dollar exchange rate give you what I would call a very competitive price. If you do the math at the current blue rate... well then this means that Buenos Aires is currently one of the lesser expensive destinations on the Planet that have comparable types of dining options.

If you adjust that cost by what you get in this town, well that number turns out even better..... at least that's my way of looking at things. Of course, Im a local and so Im partial, but I would be interested in reading posts from others that are regulars down here, or have visited recently to get their views.

Eastbay1K

Yes, but how much is the Lipitor, and is it even available?

M60_to_LGA

I fully concur w/Gaucho. I was just in Argentina a couple of weeks ago, and even though I just took the official rate (was on a business trip, didn't really have time or the inclination to see out the blue rate so just used my debit card at the ATM) I found the prices to be fine.

And, as Gaucho has noted, the food is quite yummy

Siempre Viajando

Very good point. Perhaps I should have said "...apparently functioning..." or something like that.

spainflyer

I stand corrected. Today's Wall Street Journal calls Argentina a "frontier economy" -- right up there with Vietnam and Mozambique.

ziobacio

We've been traveling to BsAs since 2006, and just returned from a month there. We are not much into 'fine' dining but eat really well at local restaurants in the neighborhood (Recoleta) where we rent an apartment.

I agree about the prices -- I think this visit was the cheapest yet, using a local cueva that gave a very competitive rate. Groceries at Carrefour, lunches and dinners, facturas, empanadas, shows at Borges Cultural Center, choripanes from sidewalk vendors, museum admissions, bus fares, all the incidentals of living there for a month were very, very inexpensive.

And of course we'll be back next year.

iahphx

I think the reciprocity is more than a rounding error for many itineraries.

Real world example: I'm planning a trip to Patagonia with my wife. Due to the nature of Argentina's economy/air service, it's easiest to fly to Punta Arenas, Chile. If not for the reciprocity fee, I would certainly cross into Argentine Patagonia. With the fee -- and the ever present risk of not being able to buy gasoline (amazingly, this has happened to me twice in recent years in Argentine Patagonia) -- it's probably not worth the trouble.

Then, I'll have to decide on another stop in the region. Without the reciprocity fee, I'd take the trouble to get to BA for a few days. But with the fee -- and the risk of other travel disruptions -- I'll probably stop at SCL instead, visit their wine region, perhaps get to the coast at Zapallar, etc.

So the fee tips the scale -- along, of course, with the fact that everything "works" in Chile, and doesn't always "work" in Argentina.

M60_to_LGA

Bwahahahahahahahah!!!!

Yeah, no. Granted, Chile's rather better in this regard than Argentina, but it ain't Japan.