Thorgils

As a relative newbie to booking Amtrak, I was misled by the website's description of differences between coach class and business class, and I thought this worth mentioning lest other newbies fall for the same deception.

In weighing up the pros and cons of paying an extra 36% for business class, the advantage that resonated most was "Every seat is reserved." And again, on the "Business Class Features" webpage, "Business Class seats are reserved on all trains."

So I was surprised when the onsite booking procedure offered no opportunity to select seats, and the eTicket indicated nothing about seats. I emailed to query, but got no response within two days. So I called reservations, only to learn that, in Amtrak-speak, a "reserved seat" does not imply an "assigned seat."

So it seems that on the train I'm taking there is in fact no difference at all between coach and business classes in the way one tries to get the seat one would like: it's every passenger for themselves on boarding. The only difference in the probability of getting desired seating derives from any difference between the load factors in the two classes. All that Amtrak's misleading language is in fact saying is that "we won't sell more tickets than we have seats." Caveat emptor.

fairviewroad

I agree that this is a somewhat clunky marketing line from Amtrak. I would point out that there is one Amtrak route where that distinction is valid. On the Pacific Surfliners, coach seats are unreserved, meaning that while anyone with a ticket can board the train, you are not actually guaranteed a seat. (In busy travel periods, the Surfliners do have standees in Coach). However, if you upgrade to Business Class on the Surfliners, you do get a guaranteed seat.

However, on the vastly higher-profile Northeast Corridor, you are correct in that there is no real difference in seat availability for Business Class versus Coach. You are guaranteed a seat (though not a specific one) in either class of service. There are other differences between Business Class and Coach, but this isn't one of them. (Whether those other differences are worth the cost of the upgrade is debatable.)

And you are also right that most people associate the phrase "reserved seat" with a specific seat. Amtrak has tried advance seat assignments before, on the Acela (I believe), but for various logistical reasons it ended up causing more problems than it solved. Amtrak could be a little more upfront that seats are not assigned in advance. Regular travelers know this but it's understandable that first-time travelers would be unpleasantly surprised. Amtrak's website does say that "Advance reservations (by train, not by individual seat) are required." But that isn't super obvious.

RogerD408

Yes, the real difference is the seat availability. They will limit the business class sales to the number of seats available, whereas coach they will sell as many as they can.

Reserved or otherwise, I have seen no enforcement of assigned seats on Amtrak. I've been on the Coast Starlight (north & south bound) and the California Zypher (east & west) where the conductors were assigning seats at time of boarding just to find those seats already occupied and told to go find open seats. On one trip east bound the conductor changed by assigned seat three times before I boarded (don't know why) and then challenged me when she was walking through the car (still didn't know why).

I've been on the Capitol Corridors where people were going back and forth on the train pretty much the entire trip looking for a place to sit. Overhead the conductor telling them the ticket does not guarantee a seat.

nerd

Is this the page in question?

Of all the things listed on it, only 2 really apply only to business class (bolded)

darben

Better term for Amtrak (sans some CA services) would be you are guaranteed a seat. Unlike most airlines Amtrak tries not to oversell a train so you are guaranteed a seat not a particular seat but some place on the train.

Airlines do not guaranty (Jetblue and a couple others excluded) do not even guaranty you space on the plane.

So a space is reserved but not a particular seat.

fairviewroad

As I noted above, that's only true on the Pacific Surfliners. Amtrak's three other corridors that offer unreserved seating do not offer Business Class, so that's not an issue there (Keystones, Hiawatha, Capitol Corridor). On ALL other Amtrak routes, Coach seats are reserved are there should be no one without a seat. That's obviously subject to operational limitations. If a previous train gets canceled, then there may be people who are asked to stand on the next train. Or if a coach car is bad-ordered, people may be re-assigned to the cafe car.


For the Capitol Corridor and Amtrak's three other unreserved corridors, that is correct...a Coach ticket does not guarantee a seat. But for the vast majority of Amtrak trains, a Coach ticket guarantees a seat, aside from irrops situations like I've described above.

Often1

I don't think it's unclear at all. It would make no sense to list only the specific Business over Coach benefits because the pax then doesn't know what he's getting and the overall package is what really counts.

True even for the Acela where there is only Business and First with no Coach.

AlanB

Actually that's not exactly correct. Even on reserved trains, and without problems or cancellations of other trains, someone holding reserved seat ticket could still find themselves without a seat to sit in.

Amtrak does oversell the reserved trains. This is mainly due to the fact that people holding monthly passes or 10 trip tickets can still board the train. Amtrak tries its best to properly load balance the number of seats for sale with the number of pass riders on average. But they don't always get it right, and of course unexpected weather events can sometimes change what trains those pass riders take.

Additionally, just like the airlines, they do oversell things by a bit hedging that there will be some no-shows. The new refund rules may affect this some however.

Now in theory the crew is supposed to try to get those with passes/multi-trip tickets to sit in the cafe car, but in practice that's a different matter.

One thing that eTickets will help with is in better estimating how many seats to sell regular tickets for, as now Amtrak will have an accurate count of how many pass riders typically ride X run. Prior to now it was more guess work.

So if one really wants to know that they will get a seat, BC is the only way to make sure. Of course even there with irregular ops, that could go out the window.

fairviewroad

Fair enough. I will however point out that I was responding to someone who claimed: They will limit the business class sales to the number of seats available, whereas coach they will sell as many as they can. That's clearly not the case, as it's quite possible to encounter a "sold out" train on the Amtrak website, for both Long-distance and corridor operations. So obviously they don't simply "sell as many as they can." But you're right, for me to say that a Coach reservation guarantees a seat except in irrops isn't quite right, either.

Often1

And, because Business is Coach on the Acela, the same rules apply. They clearly overbook the Acela in Business, but won't do it in First.

wxguy

Negatron. I was on an NYP-BOS Acela F run a few weeks ago, and it was oversold by two. I heard the conductor say so - every pax had a valid ticket. One person stood in the (former) telephone booth in the rear from NYP-STM (where one person got off), and the other went to the cafe car. I don't know what compensation he got.

etsmyers

I regularly take amtrak from Lancaster to 30th in philly. I am contemplating a trip to Stamford on Friday. Reading this, I should expect nothing for business class? Why in the world would I pay for it?

joethekay

According to the Amtrak website, business class offers a guaranteed seat, 120V outlets at seat, complimentary non alchoholic beverages and newspaper.
Sometimes a 2x 1 seating configuration car is used, and on some trains the business
class car is the last car and shared with the cafe in the front of the car (mostly Midwest corridor trains).
I prefer the businesss class upgrade when I ride the Empire State trains to Buffalo or on the Pennsylvanian to Pittsburgh as I always make use of the electrical outlet.

trainman74

Electric outlets aren't specific to business class -- as pointed out earlier in this thread, they're available in coach as well.

nbevan

3 years on and Amtrak are still misselling business class. I made exactly the same mistake as the OP for the same reasons. Click on business class and it says "Business Class seats are reserved on all trains." Further down this appears to be confirmed (rather than contradicted) by "guaranteed seats".

How do they get away with it?