Delta/AmEx charging "foreign transaction fees" for tickets originating abroad
Jul 11, 2011, 5:47 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Norway
Programs: Delta Gold Medallion, SAS Eurobonus, United, Virgin Elevate
Posts: 23
Delta/AmEx charging "foreign transaction fees" for tickets originating abroad
Has this happened to anyone else?
I have just received $80 in foreign transaction fees for tickets I purchased on delta.com with my Delta brand American Express card. An American using an American credit card on an American website having to pay a foreign transaction fee seems unfair to me.
Apparently Delta is now processing payments for tickets originating outside of the United States/Canada in the country where the flight begins. I fly often between Europe and the US - sometimes it originates in the US, sometimes it originates in Europe. And up until now, I have never incurred foreign fees for tickets purchased on delta.com with a card having a US-billing address.
Of course I understand customers need to read the rules and fees section when making tickets, but I would expect Delta to bring a change like this to our attention before processing our payments outside of the country and levying such large charges for AmEx! I would not have even thought to look for such a fee.
I find this unacceptable. Anyone else? I was unable to get the charges redacted despite this appearing to be an unfair business practice.
I'm not sure if there is anyway around that - if they will process your payment in North America if you call and make the ticket - but these extra fees add no extra value to us as customers and are not explicitly stated when purchasing the tickets.
International flyers are the bread and butter of most airlines so i fail to understand why they aren't providing better value where they have the opportunity. This grates!
Considering moving to another card since the AmEx charge for foreign transaction fees is a whopping 3%. Recommendations gladly taken!
I have just received $80 in foreign transaction fees for tickets I purchased on delta.com with my Delta brand American Express card. An American using an American credit card on an American website having to pay a foreign transaction fee seems unfair to me.
Apparently Delta is now processing payments for tickets originating outside of the United States/Canada in the country where the flight begins. I fly often between Europe and the US - sometimes it originates in the US, sometimes it originates in Europe. And up until now, I have never incurred foreign fees for tickets purchased on delta.com with a card having a US-billing address.
Of course I understand customers need to read the rules and fees section when making tickets, but I would expect Delta to bring a change like this to our attention before processing our payments outside of the country and levying such large charges for AmEx! I would not have even thought to look for such a fee.
I find this unacceptable. Anyone else? I was unable to get the charges redacted despite this appearing to be an unfair business practice.
I'm not sure if there is anyway around that - if they will process your payment in North America if you call and make the ticket - but these extra fees add no extra value to us as customers and are not explicitly stated when purchasing the tickets.
International flyers are the bread and butter of most airlines so i fail to understand why they aren't providing better value where they have the opportunity. This grates!
Considering moving to another card since the AmEx charge for foreign transaction fees is a whopping 3%. Recommendations gladly taken!
Last edited by Erin.Norge; Jul 11, 2011 at 5:55 am Reason: clarification
Jul 11, 2011, 6:41 am
#2
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Shanghai
Programs: BAEC (Gold), PC (Plat), HH (Gold), MR (Gold)
Posts: 2,729
Decision is nothing to do with AMEX, surely?
I always thought all carriers charged and billed in the currency of the country the travel originates from. If you then go ahead and use a card that carries foreign transaction fees then this is what you will incur. What card did you choose to use last time you did this (an did not incur fees)?
Don't understand what this statement has to do with your argument:
(FIFY BTW)
Surely 99%+ of those flying internationally purchase round trip tickets from (and billed in) their country of origin.
I always thought all carriers charged and billed in the currency of the country the travel originates from. If you then go ahead and use a card that carries foreign transaction fees then this is what you will incur. What card did you choose to use last time you did this (an did not incur fees)?
Don't understand what this statement has to do with your argument:
International fliers are the bread and butter of most airlines so i fail to understand why they aren't providing better value where they have the opportunity.
Surely 99%+ of those flying internationally purchase round trip tickets from (and billed in) their country of origin.
Jul 12, 2011, 3:13 am
#4
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,774
I have always booked my Delta flights ex-CPH with my U.S.-issued Centurion and have never been charged a foreign transaction fee, but the last one I booked was late last year.
I will be booking in the next month or two with DL so will be alert for this. Usually I phone DL Platinum Medallion line to book the ticket because I always book an M fare with a Z upgrade and I need to make the call to have the upgrade confirmed at time of booking anyway. So I've always found it easier to phone for the entire booking instead of booking online.
Thanks for the heads-up, I will report back if I have any issues.
Susan
I will be booking in the next month or two with DL so will be alert for this. Usually I phone DL Platinum Medallion line to book the ticket because I always book an M fare with a Z upgrade and I need to make the call to have the upgrade confirmed at time of booking anyway. So I've always found it easier to phone for the entire booking instead of booking online.
Thanks for the heads-up, I will report back if I have any issues.
Susan
Jul 12, 2011, 5:44 am
#5
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Upcountry Maui, HI
Posts: 13,312
You have a Centurion card and there are no forex fees on that card.
Though it might be interesting to see how your transaction posts, you sill won't be paying any forex fees with your card.
-David
Jul 12, 2011, 6:32 am
#6
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: Plat:US,DL (ex KL,AF,LX,LY) Gold:BA,VS (ex CO,UA).Plat.SPG,HGP Diam.HH. ICHG Plat RA. Amex Centurion
Posts: 673
I have always booked my Delta flights ex-CPH with my U.S.-issued Centurion and have never been charged a foreign transaction fee, but the last one I booked was late last year.
I will be booking in the next month or two with DL so will be alert for this. Usually I phone DL Platinum Medallion line to book the ticket because I always book an M fare with a Z upgrade and I need to make the call to have the upgrade confirmed at time of booking anyway. So I've always found it easier to phone for the entire booking instead of booking online.
Thanks for the heads-up, I will report back if I have any issues.
Susan
I will be booking in the next month or two with DL so will be alert for this. Usually I phone DL Platinum Medallion line to book the ticket because I always book an M fare with a Z upgrade and I need to make the call to have the upgrade confirmed at time of booking anyway. So I've always found it easier to phone for the entire booking instead of booking online.
Thanks for the heads-up, I will report back if I have any issues.
Susan
Jul 12, 2011, 6:38 am
#7
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: Plat:US,DL (ex KL,AF,LX,LY) Gold:BA,VS (ex CO,UA).Plat.SPG,HGP Diam.HH. ICHG Plat RA. Amex Centurion
Posts: 673
Beware that other carriers are doing this on their US website even for travel booked in, and originating in, the USA !
A friend with a non-plat/cent just booked a ticket on BA.com, flying from JFK, and was hit with a foreign transaction fee - even though the charge came from BA in the USA and was in US dollars...
Complaining to BA, he was told "we have no idea why your CC would even consider this at all a foreign transaction. The billing is done locally, in US currency, by our wholly US-based operations, and was purchased from ourselves here in the USA. You should have a word with them."
Wherever they can sneak a fee here and there, post-TARPers will do so...
:-(
A friend with a non-plat/cent just booked a ticket on BA.com, flying from JFK, and was hit with a foreign transaction fee - even though the charge came from BA in the USA and was in US dollars...
Complaining to BA, he was told "we have no idea why your CC would even consider this at all a foreign transaction. The billing is done locally, in US currency, by our wholly US-based operations, and was purchased from ourselves here in the USA. You should have a word with them."
Wherever they can sneak a fee here and there, post-TARPers will do so...
:-(
Jul 12, 2011, 6:45 am
#8
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Yiron, Israel
Programs: Bates Motel Plat
Posts: 68,930
All Delta flights originating in Israel are billed in U.S. dollars. I have never had to pay a "foreign transaction fee" when using my Amex --and that is true when purchasing through Delta.com, on the phone with Delta, at the Delta Office in Tel Aviv, or through an Israeli travel agent.
(My most recent purchase was made through the phone with Delta four days ago.)
In addition, I have never had Amex debit a foreign transaction fee for any purchase, from any organization, in any country if the original charge was in dollars.
In the past three months alone, I have had such purchases from:
KLM: For my son and a friend who are flying from Tel Aviv to Costa Rica.
AMERICAN EXPRESS: For a Czech Air itinerary for my daughter and a friend.
EL AL: For a ticket purchased on line for my daughter.
AMAZON.COM: For multiple purchases made on line.
TLV DUTY FREE SHOP: For purchases made at the airport.
HILTON: For a reservation for an upcoming stay.
HARRAH'S: For a reservation for an upcoming stay.
(My most recent purchase was made through the phone with Delta four days ago.)
In addition, I have never had Amex debit a foreign transaction fee for any purchase, from any organization, in any country if the original charge was in dollars.
In the past three months alone, I have had such purchases from:
KLM: For my son and a friend who are flying from Tel Aviv to Costa Rica.
AMERICAN EXPRESS: For a Czech Air itinerary for my daughter and a friend.
EL AL: For a ticket purchased on line for my daughter.
AMAZON.COM: For multiple purchases made on line.
TLV DUTY FREE SHOP: For purchases made at the airport.
HILTON: For a reservation for an upcoming stay.
HARRAH'S: For a reservation for an upcoming stay.
Jul 12, 2011, 7:08 am
#9
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern Bavaria, Germany
Programs: LH Blue, BA Blue, Hyatt Gold
Posts: 1,517
Use another Amex card / Country of origin rule
Has this happened to anyone else?
I have just received $80 in foreign transaction fees for tickets I purchased on delta.com with my Delta brand American Express card. An American using an American credit card on an American website having to pay a foreign transaction fee seems unfair to me.
[...]
Of course I understand customers need to read the rules and fees section when making tickets, but I would expect Delta to bring a change like this to our attention before processing our payments outside of the country and levying such large charges for AmEx! I would not have even thought to look for such a fee.
I find this unacceptable. Anyone else? I was unable to get the charges redacted despite this appearing to be an unfair business practice.
I have just received $80 in foreign transaction fees for tickets I purchased on delta.com with my Delta brand American Express card. An American using an American credit card on an American website having to pay a foreign transaction fee seems unfair to me.
[...]
Of course I understand customers need to read the rules and fees section when making tickets, but I would expect Delta to bring a change like this to our attention before processing our payments outside of the country and levying such large charges for AmEx! I would not have even thought to look for such a fee.
I find this unacceptable. Anyone else? I was unable to get the charges redacted despite this appearing to be an unfair business practice.
The corresponding service is charged correctly so I am not sure what the first part of the post is about !
As I am a great fan of Amex credit cards I just would recommend you to ADD an Amex product with lower currency fees. So you cann collect miles within the US with the remaining card and charge the other tickets to your new card.
This will also collect Membership rewards points so you will also be on your way to a reward.
This is how I would react on that issue and immediately stop even about thinking of the currency exchange fees. You have got and enjoyed the related service, they haven´t made a fault in converting.
Therefore the fee is applicable. Period.
Jul 12, 2011, 7:19 am
#10
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Yiron, Israel
Programs: Bates Motel Plat
Posts: 68,930
I think this is extremely FAIR business practice. You buy a ticket at a foreign point of origin, begin your journey there and often profit from local offers or a lower fare level in general. So you get a valid ticket according to the local rules. This is charged in local currency and then converted to US Dollar.
I can, if I want, use my Israeli credit card to pay for a Delta ticket. In that case, I will either be charged by a travel agent to convert the cost to shekels or by the credit card company for the conversion.
Delta, however, bills in dollars --and when I use my American-issued Amex I am charged no conversion fees.
Jul 12, 2011, 7:22 am
#11
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,774
He stated, "Apparently Delta is now processing payments for tickets originating outside of the United States/Canada in the country where the flight begins. I fly often between Europe and the US - sometimes it originates in the US, sometimes it originates in Europe. And up until now, I have never incurred foreign fees for tickets purchased on delta.com with a card having a US-billing address."
When I book a flight CPH-USA-CPH, it is billed in USD. It is not billed in DKK and converted (with or without a forex fee). As I understand the OP, any flight that originates outside of the U.S. will now be billed in the currency of the outbound flight. Regardless of whether forex fees are waived on my AmEx account, I still prefer to be billed in USD (without need for conversion), as I have generally found that I still pay less that way than letting AmEx do the conversion, even exclusive of forex fees.
Susan
Jul 12, 2011, 7:37 am
#12
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern Bavaria, Germany
Programs: LH Blue, BA Blue, Hyatt Gold
Posts: 1,517
Normally tickets are issued in the local currency
Sometimes people even can legally use this when making a short hop in discounted Economy Class from one European country to another country and then buying their longhaul flight with the there lower fare level.
Was very common with Germany and Italy.
One up-to-date example:
"Milan (MIL) to New York (NYC): Departing: Tue 2 Aug - Returning: Tue 9 Aug
Date Departure Arrival Flight Duration Cabin
Tue 2 Aug 14:30Milan, Malpensa 15:45Frankfurt LH253 11h10 Business (D)
Tue 2 Aug 17:05Frankfurt 19:40New York, John F Kennedy LH404 Business (D)
Tue 9 Aug 17:40New York, John F Kennedy 08:05+1Munich LH411 10h35 Business (D)
Wed 10 Aug 09:05Munich 10:15Milan, Malpensa LH1854Operated by Air Dolomiti Business (D)
Total Price
Fare
(per person) Taxes, fees and charges
(per person) Passengers
Total
2479.00 + 391.91 x 1 Adult = € 2870.91
Ticket Service Charge (Total) = € 15.00
Total Price for all passengers = € 2885.91
Please note, that the ticket serv"
The same full flexible fare from Frankfurt, Germany:
Date Departure Arrival Flight Duration Cabin
Tue 2 Aug 17:05Frankfurt 19:40New York, John F Kennedy LH404 8h35 Business (D)
Tue 9 Aug 21:40New York, John F Kennedy 11:20+1Frankfurt LH405 7h40 Business (D)
Total Price
Fare
(per person) Taxes, fees and charges
(per person) Passengers
Total
3290.00 + 339.30 x 1 Adult = € 3629.30
Ticket Service Charge (Total) = € 15.00
Total Price for all passengers = € 3644.30
Sorry for the bad format but tried to keep it as genuine as it was.
Thsi pricing has sometimes reasons ranging long time to the past (e.g. lower wages and price level in Italy) and some competitive reasons.
Therefore there are huge differences in fares and therefore it is only fair to complete the transaction within the country where the travel originates.
Hopes this helps.
Jul 12, 2011, 8:03 am
#13
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,774
Since when does Delta issue a ticket that is charged in any currency other than US dollars?
I can, if I want, use my Israeli credit card to pay for a Delta ticket. In that case, I will either be charged by a travel agent to convert the cost to shekels or by the credit card company for the conversion.
Delta, however, bills in dollars --and when I use my American-issued Amex I am charged no conversion fees.
I can, if I want, use my Israeli credit card to pay for a Delta ticket. In that case, I will either be charged by a travel agent to convert the cost to shekels or by the credit card company for the conversion.
Delta, however, bills in dollars --and when I use my American-issued Amex I am charged no conversion fees.
Jul 12, 2011, 8:05 am
#14
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Baltimore MD
Posts: 3,457
On a totally different side of things (but sort of related).
I cruised SeaDream a number of years ago. The charge came through in dollars, but was processed by a foreign bank (they are based out of Oslo). I got hit with a foreign transaction fee because of this on my SPG Amex. I complained to AMEX, nothing really happened. I talked to SeaDream and they were very sorry and gave me cabin credit equal to the forex fee, which was fine. I think that now for US transactions they bill through their Miami office.
FDW
I cruised SeaDream a number of years ago. The charge came through in dollars, but was processed by a foreign bank (they are based out of Oslo). I got hit with a foreign transaction fee because of this on my SPG Amex. I complained to AMEX, nothing really happened. I talked to SeaDream and they were very sorry and gave me cabin credit equal to the forex fee, which was fine. I think that now for US transactions they bill through their Miami office.
FDW
Jul 12, 2011, 8:25 am
#15
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: Plat:US,DL (ex KL,AF,LX,LY) Gold:BA,VS (ex CO,UA).Plat.SPG,HGP Diam.HH. ICHG Plat RA. Amex Centurion
Posts: 673
I am aware of that. But the OP implied that he also did not previously pay fees when booking a ticket on a U.S. website with a U.S. credit card and U.S. billing address.
He stated, "Apparently Delta is now processing payments for tickets originating outside of the United States/Canada in the country where the flight begins. I fly often between Europe and the US - sometimes it originates in the US, sometimes it originates in Europe. And up until now, I have never incurred foreign fees for tickets purchased on delta.com with a card having a US-billing address."
When I book a flight CPH-USA-CPH, it is billed in USD. It is not billed in DKK and converted (with or without a forex fee). As I understand the OP, any flight that originates outside of the U.S. will now be billed in the currency of the outbound flight. Regardless of whether forex fees are waived on my AmEx account, I still prefer to be billed in USD (without need for conversion), as I have generally found that I still pay less that way than letting AmEx do the conversion, even exclusive of forex fees.
Alert to whether I'm charged in DKK which is then converted to USD, as opposed to charged in USD. There are price differences between having DL quote a USD fixed fare that is charged to AmEx as USD, and being quoted a DKK fare which is charged to AmEx as DKK which then AmEx converts to USD, even without forex fees coming into the equation.
Susan
He stated, "Apparently Delta is now processing payments for tickets originating outside of the United States/Canada in the country where the flight begins. I fly often between Europe and the US - sometimes it originates in the US, sometimes it originates in Europe. And up until now, I have never incurred foreign fees for tickets purchased on delta.com with a card having a US-billing address."
When I book a flight CPH-USA-CPH, it is billed in USD. It is not billed in DKK and converted (with or without a forex fee). As I understand the OP, any flight that originates outside of the U.S. will now be billed in the currency of the outbound flight. Regardless of whether forex fees are waived on my AmEx account, I still prefer to be billed in USD (without need for conversion), as I have generally found that I still pay less that way than letting AmEx do the conversion, even exclusive of forex fees.
Alert to whether I'm charged in DKK which is then converted to USD, as opposed to charged in USD. There are price differences between having DL quote a USD fixed fare that is charged to AmEx as USD, and being quoted a DKK fare which is charged to AmEx as DKK which then AmEx converts to USD, even without forex fees coming into the equation.
Susan
The topic is of Amex "charging 'foreign transaction fees' for tickets originating abroad", denominated in and billed in USD. No exchange-rate issues, no conversion fee issue, nothing of the sort.
As of last year, most credit cards (including all Amex except for plat/cent) began charging between 2% and 3% for all transactions processed outside of the USA, even in US dollars. This is in addition to, and seperate from, the exchange fee/s on foreign currency (whether or not there is an exchange rate spread).
Thus, as you have a plat/cent card, the experiences of, and complaints raised by, the OP have no practical implication for any of your own future dealings with Amex. These problems aren't relevant to you or your account.