Last edit by: JDiver
AA Ground Staff May Deny Boarding for China Transit Without Visa Issues
This thread is ONLY for discussion of American Airlines' ground staff dealing with Chinese TWOV issues. For further information, see:
FlyerTalk Forums > Destinations > Asia > China Forum
China Visa / Visas Master Thread (all you need to know)
and / or
China 24, 72, and 144 hour Transit Without Visa ("TWOV") rules master thread
The issue: though Chinese immigration authorities seem disposed to allow transit without visa for passengers going on to flights with connections in non-China, non-origin destinations, e.g. LAX-PVG <permitted TWOV> PVG-NRT-LAX, AA ground staff have denied boarding to passengers for the XXX-China leg.
Even if such a passenger were to secure alternate arrangements or reimbursement, there is still sure to be considerable inconvenience. Until AA informs ground staff such travel complies with China TWOV rules, purchasing such an itinerary currently entails some degree of risk, as evidenced in the following thread.
AA generally uses IATA Timatic to verify boarding eligibility. Link to Timatic Web provided courtesy of United Airlines; this form provides information on entry requirements, not departure policies as might be administered by any airline.
144 TWOV China- AA Issues/Questions
#16
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
No one should.
But the rule is you must be in transit to a 3rd Country, you were not.
But the rule is you must be in transit to a 3rd Country, you were not.
#17
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 350
This is most definitely -not- my forte, but I'll take a stab at it.
I think you were given wrong explanation, in a way.
TWOV requires travel to a third Country-- not a return to origin, so LAX to PVG followed by a return of PVG-NRT-LAX-- without that stopover in NRT, is, in fact, not a proper use of China TWOV.
You needed a actual Visa because you were actually visiting China.
But will defer to actual experts here.
I think you were given wrong explanation, in a way.
TWOV requires travel to a third Country-- not a return to origin, so LAX to PVG followed by a return of PVG-NRT-LAX-- without that stopover in NRT, is, in fact, not a proper use of China TWOV.
You needed a actual Visa because you were actually visiting China.
But will defer to actual experts here.
Also, what is the difference between the 72 and 144 versions?
#18
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: CHS
Programs: Lots
Posts: 1,012
I would never attempt to fly the OPs routing & ticket.
I would get a 10 year CN visa for the peace of mind.
If I were going to attempt TVOV and wanted to use the indicated flights, I would be sure to book outbound as a one-way and return on a seperate ticket. Would then eticket a refundable J ticket PVG-SIN on SQ and use this ticket for LAX checkin as proof of eligibility for TWOV. Once in CN, cancel SQ tox for refund and fly AA home.
I would get a 10 year CN visa for the peace of mind.
If I were going to attempt TVOV and wanted to use the indicated flights, I would be sure to book outbound as a one-way and return on a seperate ticket. Would then eticket a refundable J ticket PVG-SIN on SQ and use this ticket for LAX checkin as proof of eligibility for TWOV. Once in CN, cancel SQ tox for refund and fly AA home.
#19
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HNL
Programs: AA PP 1.8MM, PC Spire, Hertz 5*, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,030
After skimming through the flyertalk thread on the matter:
China 24, 72, and 144 hour Transit Without Visa ("TWOV") rules master thread
Looks like it doesn't matter if it is 72 or 144, but it looks like it is still a possible issue with FAs and GAs unable to recognize a stopover is not necessary, just only need an indirect flight back to the country of origin.
Honestly, that is what has kept me from doing a mileage run to PEK. I'm afraid of getting an FA or GA that doesn't understand the rules and won't budge.
China 24, 72, and 144 hour Transit Without Visa ("TWOV") rules master thread
Looks like it doesn't matter if it is 72 or 144, but it looks like it is still a possible issue with FAs and GAs unable to recognize a stopover is not necessary, just only need an indirect flight back to the country of origin.
Honestly, that is what has kept me from doing a mileage run to PEK. I'm afraid of getting an FA or GA that doesn't understand the rules and won't budge.
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 36
What is funny is I got the idea for this routing through the TWOV flyertalk thread. Many travel blogs including FlyerTalk, TripAdviosr, and PointsGuy all mention the LAX-PVG-NRT-LAX route as acceptable.
#21
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 5,270
If you were aware of the threads, then you were almost certainly aware of the risks.
#22
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 36
I did not go into this blind. As mentioned before, I have documentation from Chinese Embassy approving the booked Itinerary.
#24
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HNL
Programs: AA PP 1.8MM, PC Spire, Hertz 5*, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,030
This is from the China Visa Flyertalk wiki as of 15 Jan 2017:
China 24, 72, and 144 hour Transit Without Visa ("TWOV") rules master thread
China 24, 72, and 144 hour Transit Without Visa ("TWOV") rules master thread
• Duration of stop in third country is irrelevant (e.g., LAX-PVG-NRT-LAX is compliant, even if NRT stop is for only a few hours).
#25
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zurich
Programs: BA GGL, TK*G EL, KL P ELPL, ex AB P, ex LH/LX Sen, HHonors D4L, Bonvoy P
Posts: 1,647
I guess it depends not only on immigration control into China, but also on emigration control (China, unlike the US, does check your passport when departing from the country). So if you show up with a PVG-LAX boarding pass upon depature, I'm quite sure there will be a problem. If you have a PVG-NRT boarding pass, not mentioning LAX, you could probably get away with it. But I somehow understand that the AA agents didn't want to take the risk.
#26
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: CHS
Programs: Lots
Posts: 1,012
Additionally, since a refund was offered with no question and the response I received from CS was as close to an apology and acceptance of error from a corporation as I'm ever likely to see I have to assume that there are a significant number of people within AA who see it my way rather than yours (additionally, if you read the TWOV thread it is agrees with the interpretation I presented).
#27
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HNL
Programs: AA PP 1.8MM, PC Spire, Hertz 5*, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,030
I am interested in how this works out because I do want to do this MR some day. From my understanding, this is legal, but confusing.
OP, please post back when you get your answer from AA.
OP, please post back when you get your answer from AA.
#28
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
And, it may well be that one can prevail (either later as a poster upthread did, getting a refund) or even have a good % chance (probably a very good % chance) of not having this problem.
The section from TIMATIC states:
- Transit without visa (TWOV) is not permitted when the
passenger arrives AND departs on direct flights from/to USA
and USA territory Guam or Northern Mariana Isl.
passenger arrives AND departs on direct flights from/to USA
and USA territory Guam or Northern Mariana Isl.
Where I -am- a bit of an expert in is how AA operates, and, I'd say the odds of AA "straightening out" it's check-in agents on this, to the extent that that's called for or not, is very close to zero.
#29
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 36
答复: 144 Transit without Visa
Chinese Consulate in L.A. Visa and Passport Office to you show details
Hello,
the itinerary looks good. And for more information, please visit the following website: http://www.sh-immigration.gov.cn/lis...?lx=40&id=4414
Shanghai General Station of Immigration Inspection
www.sh-immigration.gov.cn
To support the construction of Shanghai Science and Technology Innovation Center, sanctioned by the State Council, Shanghai is to adopt a 144-hour visa-exemption ...
Visa and Passport Office
Chinese Consulate in Los Angeles
Add: 3rd Floor, 500 shatto place Los Angeles ,CA,90020
Tel: 213-201-1765
Fax: 213-380-0372
Office Hour: 9:00-14:00, Monday to Friday (Holidays excluded)
________________________________________
发件人:
发送时间: 2017年3月23日 3:04
收件人: [email protected]
主题: 144 Transit without Visa
Hello,
Does the following airline itinerary qualify for the 144 hour visa-free transit? We are staying at the Disneyland hotel and not leaving the city.
Thank You for your help
Sunday, April 9, 2017
LAX
PVG
11:25 AM
4:25 PM
Los Angeles
Shanghai Pu Dong
American Airlines 183
Seats: -- , -- , -- , --
Class: Economy (O)
Meals: Lunch/dinner
________________________________________
Friday, April 14, 2017
PVG
NRT
11:50 AM
3:50 PM
Shanghai Pu Dong
Tokyo Narita
Japan Airlines 874
Seats: -- , -- , -- , --
Class: Economy (O)
Meals:
NRT
LAX
5:25 PM
11:40 AM
Tokyo Narita
Los Angeles
American Airlines 170
Chinese Consulate in L.A. Visa and Passport Office to you show details
Hello,
the itinerary looks good. And for more information, please visit the following website: http://www.sh-immigration.gov.cn/lis...?lx=40&id=4414
Shanghai General Station of Immigration Inspection
www.sh-immigration.gov.cn
To support the construction of Shanghai Science and Technology Innovation Center, sanctioned by the State Council, Shanghai is to adopt a 144-hour visa-exemption ...
Visa and Passport Office
Chinese Consulate in Los Angeles
Add: 3rd Floor, 500 shatto place Los Angeles ,CA,90020
Tel: 213-201-1765
Fax: 213-380-0372
Office Hour: 9:00-14:00, Monday to Friday (Holidays excluded)
________________________________________
发件人:
发送时间: 2017年3月23日 3:04
收件人: [email protected]
主题: 144 Transit without Visa
Hello,
Does the following airline itinerary qualify for the 144 hour visa-free transit? We are staying at the Disneyland hotel and not leaving the city.
Thank You for your help
Sunday, April 9, 2017
LAX
PVG
11:25 AM
4:25 PM
Los Angeles
Shanghai Pu Dong
American Airlines 183
Seats: -- , -- , -- , --
Class: Economy (O)
Meals: Lunch/dinner
________________________________________
Friday, April 14, 2017
PVG
NRT
11:50 AM
3:50 PM
Shanghai Pu Dong
Tokyo Narita
Japan Airlines 874
Seats: -- , -- , -- , --
Class: Economy (O)
Meals:
NRT
LAX
5:25 PM
11:40 AM
Tokyo Narita
Los Angeles
American Airlines 170
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 11,668
I think you were technically correct, but it seemed (and was) one of those marginal cases open to debate/interpretation. Because it looked like (and was) that you were in essence wanted to travel to China, and relying on a technicality to get the TWOV. It was very risky and didn't work out. I would try to recoup loses from AA or travel insurance, but who knows if you will get anything back.