With the upgrade changes will you fly AA less or switch FF programs?
Oct 5, 2004, 10:50 pm
#1
Suspended
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2002
Programs: AA EXP, BA GLD, FT < 30 y
Posts: 2,106
With the upgrade changes will you fly AA less or switch FF programs?
The upgrade policy changes that AA made today are absolutely horrible-- requiring a copay on deep discount Y to J fares and increasing the amount of miles to upgrade from J --> F by 15K/one way trans-Atlantic. So the question I have is how do these changes affect your loyalty to AAdvantage, are you considering other airlines (and if so which ones), or even to fly as often with AA (or at all)?
For me, BA is looking like a much more attractive trans-Atlantic choice. UA is also tempting, since who knows what AA is going to do next. I'll definitely start burning through my 650,000 AA miles on free trips for myself and the gf since who knows how much they'll decline in value next month. Although I'll make EXP this year, I don't know if I'll throw in a couple of extra leisure trips to requalify in 2005, maybe dropping down to PLT in 2006. To be honest, the fact that AA is doing this has completely shaken my faith in AAdvantage and frequent flier programs in general. Now I'm thinking there are so many other places to visit nearby like NYC or maybe even spending a long vacation weekend lying in bed with my gf reading the newspaper, and watching old movies rather than schlepping off to London.
Any thoughts???
For me, BA is looking like a much more attractive trans-Atlantic choice. UA is also tempting, since who knows what AA is going to do next. I'll definitely start burning through my 650,000 AA miles on free trips for myself and the gf since who knows how much they'll decline in value next month. Although I'll make EXP this year, I don't know if I'll throw in a couple of extra leisure trips to requalify in 2005, maybe dropping down to PLT in 2006. To be honest, the fact that AA is doing this has completely shaken my faith in AAdvantage and frequent flier programs in general. Now I'm thinking there are so many other places to visit nearby like NYC or maybe even spending a long vacation weekend lying in bed with my gf reading the newspaper, and watching old movies rather than schlepping off to London.
Any thoughts???
Oct 5, 2004, 10:54 pm
#2
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: AA EXP 1MM, UA Silver, HH Gold, IHG Platinum, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 794
My AAdvantage goals have switched dramatically after the new upgrade co-payment. Now, I will accrue miles mainly for domestic upgrades and international free tickets on partner airlines.
Will I fly less of AA? Not sure. But I probably won't fly them internationally to Japan, Europe, or "Deep" South America.
Will I fly less of AA? Not sure. But I probably won't fly them internationally to Japan, Europe, or "Deep" South America.
Oct 5, 2004, 11:13 pm
#3
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: SoCal
Posts: 676
Originally Posted by CharlesMD
The upgrade policy changes that AA made today are absolutely horrible-- requiring a copay on deep discount Y to J fares and increasing the amount of miles to upgrade from J --> F by 15K/one way trans-Atlantic. So the question I have is how do these changes affect your loyalty to AAdvantage, are you considering other airlines (and if so which ones), or even to fly as often with AA (or at all)?
???
???
Another MD's point of view, Charles....
Oct 5, 2004, 11:49 pm
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2000
Location: RDU
Programs: AA LT Gold, DL SM, HY Disc, Marriott LT Gold
Posts: 12,507
With 610k in American, I'm in a similar boat. I had been hoping to save these miles for another four years until I made lifetime Platinum. But the devaluation of the VIP2 into VIPOWs got me out of EXP and back to PLT last year and this year. But I was gearing up to go back to EXP in 2005 and 2006, including an AONE4 in 2006.
Now, not as much...
My work travel is down to about 26k/year from its peak of 55k/year, and half of that is BOS-ORD trips that I could trim if I wanted. The 8pm BOS-ORD is rarely more than half-full, and I can usually get 13BC or 21DE depending on what plane they have flying it. So as long as Lifetime Gold can book exit row, I see the game as EXP or bust even if MRTC goes away. And EXP walked out the door if I have to pay $500 four times a year so that my international flights earn status miles. So I'll burn down at least 180k in 2005 (probably one trip to Europe and one to either Asia or South America), and the paid AONE4 in 2006 gets downgraded to a OW180C award. I'll still fly American for business when it's really convenient, but I'll fly United or Southwest or even ATA's new business class if they are both easier and cheaper. And I'll still fly American for some leisure travel when it make sense, such as the 763s to LA/SF, or when there's no good deal and I want to burn miles.
But being Chicago-based, most of my friends (both on and off of FT) are United fliers. It's terribly inconvenient to think about travelling together when we have to fly different airlines. I've already burned my status match on United in what was an unhappy 2003 experience with too much time spent at IAD and PIT, and contemplated the 2/4 offer for about an hour this morning. Then I decided that for the $900 it would cost me for two B round-trips, I can get some of my friends to tag along with me on a few 2005 domestic trips and upgrade me into F, and I can probably beg my way into a couple of CR1s. I also have 60k in Mileage Plus right now, so I can upgrade one trip to Europe assuming they can confirm at booking. Toss in a couple of business trips to places American doesn't fly (LAN for one) and some sort of promo, and making Premier on United in 2005 should happen.
The real hit for me, however, will be in the hotels. Less leisure travel means fewer hotel stays. Fewer hotel stays means not keeping top-level status with both Starwood and Hilton. This could really hurt.
Now, not as much...
My work travel is down to about 26k/year from its peak of 55k/year, and half of that is BOS-ORD trips that I could trim if I wanted. The 8pm BOS-ORD is rarely more than half-full, and I can usually get 13BC or 21DE depending on what plane they have flying it. So as long as Lifetime Gold can book exit row, I see the game as EXP or bust even if MRTC goes away. And EXP walked out the door if I have to pay $500 four times a year so that my international flights earn status miles. So I'll burn down at least 180k in 2005 (probably one trip to Europe and one to either Asia or South America), and the paid AONE4 in 2006 gets downgraded to a OW180C award. I'll still fly American for business when it's really convenient, but I'll fly United or Southwest or even ATA's new business class if they are both easier and cheaper. And I'll still fly American for some leisure travel when it make sense, such as the 763s to LA/SF, or when there's no good deal and I want to burn miles.
But being Chicago-based, most of my friends (both on and off of FT) are United fliers. It's terribly inconvenient to think about travelling together when we have to fly different airlines. I've already burned my status match on United in what was an unhappy 2003 experience with too much time spent at IAD and PIT, and contemplated the 2/4 offer for about an hour this morning. Then I decided that for the $900 it would cost me for two B round-trips, I can get some of my friends to tag along with me on a few 2005 domestic trips and upgrade me into F, and I can probably beg my way into a couple of CR1s. I also have 60k in Mileage Plus right now, so I can upgrade one trip to Europe assuming they can confirm at booking. Toss in a couple of business trips to places American doesn't fly (LAN for one) and some sort of promo, and making Premier on United in 2005 should happen.
The real hit for me, however, will be in the hotels. Less leisure travel means fewer hotel stays. Fewer hotel stays means not keeping top-level status with both Starwood and Hilton. This could really hurt.
Oct 6, 2004, 12:59 am
#5
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: FLL, over-inflated EGO due to EXP status
Posts: 4,519
Loss #1 for AA. Less discretionary leisure travel. I can't justify an extra $1000, along with everything else, for 2 or 3 days somewhere which I've been doing for so many years...... I've always looked at the ability to do it somewhat cheaply, often, and comfortably as a perk for all the time spent traveling for work. So, there will just be fewer personal trips and I'll look to spend a lot more (cuz I'm not flying in Y) per fewer tickets when I do go, but get better service on other OW carriers. AA would still get domestic discretionary (and I get free upgrades), but someone else gets int'l.
Loss #2 for AA. I'll switch all my business travel south of the border to LanChile. Yes, it will cost more because I'll pretty much have to pay full J or maybe a little discounted, but LanChile actually has a J cabin that approaches being worthy of the roughly 5K they usually want; you know, where the FAs actually care and professionally attend to the business cabin, the food is truly good, and they load enough to make sure no one gets stuck with a crappy $2 worth of pasta in a bowl. Not to mention, have a business seat that's lots more comfy.
I'll still use AA for my domestic transcons though. Thanks to the LCCs, my routes from FLL are always more reasonable than AA would like. Couple that with my LanChile flights and I'm still EXP. I'll then ride upgraded to F also, compliments of AA, on my domestic biz trips, while their OW partner actually gets the substantial dollars I spend a year on int'l business travel.
This was just not the way to do us AA.
Loss #2 for AA. I'll switch all my business travel south of the border to LanChile. Yes, it will cost more because I'll pretty much have to pay full J or maybe a little discounted, but LanChile actually has a J cabin that approaches being worthy of the roughly 5K they usually want; you know, where the FAs actually care and professionally attend to the business cabin, the food is truly good, and they load enough to make sure no one gets stuck with a crappy $2 worth of pasta in a bowl. Not to mention, have a business seat that's lots more comfy.
I'll still use AA for my domestic transcons though. Thanks to the LCCs, my routes from FLL are always more reasonable than AA would like. Couple that with my LanChile flights and I'm still EXP. I'll then ride upgraded to F also, compliments of AA, on my domestic biz trips, while their OW partner actually gets the substantial dollars I spend a year on int'l business travel.
This was just not the way to do us AA.
Oct 6, 2004, 1:40 am
#6
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, UK
Programs: AA EXP 1MM, HH Gold, dirt loads of places.
Posts: 1,657
Well, at the moment a lot of my personal trips are LHR to CAE and back. Because AA doesn't serve CAE, I endure the Eagle flight ORD-CLT and the hour and a half drive just so I can upgrade the LHR-ORD bit.
Now that AA are going to gouge me an extra $500 I'm going to start thinking "Hey, UA fly into CAE, and LHR is just as good for UA as it is for AA..." Heck, if US survive I might remember that they fly direct from LGW to CLT.
My short term strategy will be to call the EXP desk today and switch my currently booked upgrades from VIPs to miles, burn up my miles on upgrades booked before Dec 1, use my VIPs afterward, burn what's left on free trips and then think about looking for a status match in the new year. I'll be spending time in other fora, that's for sure. And, I suspect that many other AAdvantage elites based in Europe will be doing the same thing.
Now that AA are going to gouge me an extra $500 I'm going to start thinking "Hey, UA fly into CAE, and LHR is just as good for UA as it is for AA..." Heck, if US survive I might remember that they fly direct from LGW to CLT.
My short term strategy will be to call the EXP desk today and switch my currently booked upgrades from VIPs to miles, burn up my miles on upgrades booked before Dec 1, use my VIPs afterward, burn what's left on free trips and then think about looking for a status match in the new year. I'll be spending time in other fora, that's for sure. And, I suspect that many other AAdvantage elites based in Europe will be doing the same thing.
Oct 6, 2004, 1:44 am
#7
Join Date: May 2001
Location: is everything...but...
Programs: dont matter anymore...
Posts: 3,019
I mentioned this is the 50 page thread.. but here goes..
"Deep south America" is my route. I used all my miles for upgrades, not anymore. With this BS they've turned it into a free tickets for miles game.
On AA, a "better seat" to Brazil is 90k miles. On CO a much better seat, service and food is 70k miles. Granted, CO availabilty is garbage if you need to plan in advance, but if you can travel on short notice and are really flexible like me, it's actually pretty good. I never thought I'd be saying this, but CO is looking REALLY good right about now.
They also comp EXP to their top level Plat without blinking and that means a 125% milage bonus... If i can get exit rows, it wont be bad at all...
Flipside
"Deep south America" is my route. I used all my miles for upgrades, not anymore. With this BS they've turned it into a free tickets for miles game.
On AA, a "better seat" to Brazil is 90k miles. On CO a much better seat, service and food is 70k miles. Granted, CO availabilty is garbage if you need to plan in advance, but if you can travel on short notice and are really flexible like me, it's actually pretty good. I never thought I'd be saying this, but CO is looking REALLY good right about now.
They also comp EXP to their top level Plat without blinking and that means a 125% milage bonus... If i can get exit rows, it wont be bad at all...
Flipside
Oct 6, 2004, 1:52 am
#8
Join Date: May 2001
Location: is everything...but...
Programs: dont matter anymore...
Posts: 3,019
ugh..i need to eat some foot.
I haven't used CO in ages, and I Just checked their site.. it's now 90k miles for Brazil.
Ok.. its 75k on Varig, and I checked first!
I haven't used CO in ages, and I Just checked their site.. it's now 90k miles for Brazil.
Ok.. its 75k on Varig, and I checked first!
Oct 6, 2004, 2:04 am
#9
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Programs: 11 Longhaired Friends of Jesus; Chartreuse Microbus; just demoted to AA nonentity
Posts: 282
Originally Posted by flipside
ugh..i need to eat some foot.
Oct 6, 2004, 2:20 am
#10
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Toronto
Programs: AC, AA, DL, UA
Posts: 1,604
As long as I get MRTC, I'm sticking with AA. I never used the upgrade awards anyway.
As soon as MRTC goes, so do I. It's that simple.
As soon as MRTC goes, so do I. It's that simple.
Oct 6, 2004, 2:31 am
#11
Suspended
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2002
Programs: AA EXP, BA GLD, FT < 30 y
Posts: 2,106
Originally Posted by flipside
They also comp EXP to their top level Plat without blinking and that means a 125% milage bonus... If i can get exit rows, it wont be bad at all...
Bottom line: This is just dumb AA!
Oct 6, 2004, 2:41 am
#12
Join Date: May 2001
Location: is everything...but...
Programs: dont matter anymore...
Posts: 3,019
Originally Posted by CharlesMD
Are you serious??? The reason is that with the 125% miles bonus, one trip to HNL gets me 5 trips from WAS to NYC on Amtrak which is worth about $750 (and something I'd actually like to do). Heck, the gf and I could go to NYC for free every other weekend with all the flying we do. What does PLT comp to? Maybe the thing to do for me is to enjoy AA EXP in 2005 then switch to CO in 2006?
Bottom line: This is just dumb AA!
Bottom line: This is just dumb AA!
yep.. did it for a friend a couple months ago..
Oct 6, 2004, 6:10 am
#13
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Programs: AA CK EXP 3MM, National EE, Hertz Plat
Posts: 320
I hate being nickled and dimed
I do about 4 trips per year ORD-NRT. 2 myself and 2 with the family. We always bought discounted Y and upgraded to J. This change by AA just makes our decision on vacation easier. The 2 trips with the family will now be changed to domestic. We have seen enough of Japan and the in laws anyway. The kids really want to see the big rat in Orlando again. I might end up spending more in the long run but I don't like the way AA is treating their loyal customers.
See here is the deal. I actually have the money to pay the fee. I could pay an extra $2000 to upgrade the family both ways. What AA does not understand is that in the year 2004 people are not just going to throw you money for a sub standard product, bad service and the preception that you gouge them every chance you get. I ALWAYS have had NO PROBLEM spending my hard earned money on a company and product that is worthwile. That is why I would gladly spend just as much money and go to Disney and live it up for a week.
Does this company have any clue about being successful and builiding loyality. Please do not tell me that business is bad and to survive etc... Then close down. Please do not tell me about what the other airlines are doing. I do not care. I choose AA not UA or CO etc...
I could go on and on. Bottom line is me and the wife just decided last night and confirmed now that the trip to Japan early next year will now be a fun trip to the happiest place on earth.
Joel
See here is the deal. I actually have the money to pay the fee. I could pay an extra $2000 to upgrade the family both ways. What AA does not understand is that in the year 2004 people are not just going to throw you money for a sub standard product, bad service and the preception that you gouge them every chance you get. I ALWAYS have had NO PROBLEM spending my hard earned money on a company and product that is worthwile. That is why I would gladly spend just as much money and go to Disney and live it up for a week.
Does this company have any clue about being successful and builiding loyality. Please do not tell me that business is bad and to survive etc... Then close down. Please do not tell me about what the other airlines are doing. I do not care. I choose AA not UA or CO etc...
I could go on and on. Bottom line is me and the wife just decided last night and confirmed now that the trip to Japan early next year will now be a fun trip to the happiest place on earth.
Joel
Oct 6, 2004, 6:32 am
#14
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MEL
Posts: 2,441
Originally Posted by chartreuse
My short term strategy will be to call the EXP desk today and switch my currently booked upgrades from VIPs to miles, burn up my miles on upgrades booked before Dec 1, use my VIPs afterward, .....
Oct 6, 2004, 6:36 am
#15
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Berkshire
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by JSSAUCE
What AA does not understand is that in the year 2004 people are not just going to throw you money for a sub standard product, bad service and the preception that you gouge them every chance you get. I ALWAYS have had NO PROBLEM spending my hard earned money on a company and product that is worthwile. That is why I would gladly spend just as much money and go to Disney and live it up for a week.
Does this company have any clue about being successful and builiding loyality. Please do not tell me that business is bad and to survive etc... Then close down. Please do not tell me about what the other airlines are doing. I do not care. I choose AA not UA or CO etc...
Joel
Domestically, the F service has declined. It was fine when I was driving towards international upgrade access; at $250/way for the J seat, the incentive is decreased. With YX in my area and this as part of the landscape, there's really no need to do that anymore. More YX, less AA.
Oh and the AAdvantage MasterCard that builds miles for upgrades (and I assume provides some revenue stream to AA)....that's history too. Not a very well thought out approach.
Ironically enough, I'll pass 1MM next week...