Public evidence of possible changes to Million Miler Program?
#631
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: DSM
Programs: AA EXP .72MM
Posts: 188
I dont like what AA is doing in general....however inn this case Elite status is getting watered down and to get a lifetime elite status it should be based only on your BUTT IN THE SEAT!!! BIS MILES ONLY and then make Lifetime status more rewarding by a few extras!!
AA is getting stingier all the way around these days !!
AA is getting stingier all the way around these days !!
#633
Moderator: Alaska Mileage Plan
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,318
Recap of Maya Leibman's remarks on the subject yesterday morning (4/29/2011) at Randy's confab, excerpted from the View from the Wing blog.
Leibman confirmed that American is looking at changes to their million miler program. In answer to another question later on the propositon of elite level customers, she reported that her Gold and Platinum ranks were a bit more swelled than at the other programs as a result of the million miler program (one reason they feel they need to make changes). But she reported that the details of the changes were not completely final, most importantly though she assured that the changes would be clearly communicated to members in advance, that there would be notice rather than suggesting that the changes were either already in place (as some have speculated) or that the changes would go into effect in a metter of days or weeks. Bottom-line: folks should be able to learn about the changes, and then transfer in all of their Starwood points… or perhaps even that a credit card signup bonus now will make it possible to push members over the top for a given lifetime elite status threshold. Recall, of course, that the current method of earning American’s lifetime status is to obtain over 1 million miles from any source in your account for Gold, or 2 million for Platinum. Fortunately I received my 2 million mile status over the past summer, I’m guessing that the changes will prevent me from making 3 million miles (for another set of international upgrades, but not higher status) in the near future. Though we don’t know whether only flight miles will count or whether it’ll be flight miles plus some other miles although it will no longer be miles from all sources that count.
Last edited by dayone; Apr 30, 2011 at 3:51 pm Reason: Correct date.
#634
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,695
I dont like what AA is doing in general....however inn this case Elite status is getting watered down and to get a lifetime elite status it should be based only on your BUTT IN THE SEAT!!! BIS MILES ONLY and then make Lifetime status more rewarding by a few extras!!
AA is getting stingier all the way around these days !!
AA is getting stingier all the way around these days !!
#635
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX
Programs: AA PLT / 2MM
Posts: 2,113
In answer to another question later on the propositon of elite level customers, she reported that her Gold and Platinum ranks were a bit more swelled than at the other programs as a result of the million miler program (one reason they feel they need to make changes).
AA probably feels the need to make changes because their elite ranks are swelling in an absolute sense, but any comparison to other domestic carriers seems disingenuous to me.
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P.S. I was just reading more of this blogger's posts and see an Apr 22nd post stating the following:
This generosity has swelled the elite ranks. Now, million miler members tend to be good customers and this approach has underscored that frequent flyer programs aren’t just about rewarding frequent flyers anymore, customers earning miles through other means are generating real revenue for the program as well.
Last edited by LAX_Esq; Apr 30, 2011 at 2:16 pm
#636
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: DSM
Programs: AA EXP .72MM
Posts: 188
Is "the other programs" = OW carriers, or other domestic carriers? It makes sense to me that AA would "feel the need" not to be "swelled" compared to their OW partners (e.g., int'l lounge access). But it makes little sense to me that AA would "need to make changes" because United and Delta have fewer elites.
AA probably feels the need to make changes because their elite ranks are swelling in an absolute sense, but any comparison to other domestic carriers seems disingenuous to me.
----
P.S. I was just reading more of this blogger's posts and see an Apr 22nd post stating the following:
I also wonder if this means that AA will make regular qualification for elite status tougher as well starting in 2012....??
Now I wonder how much of this whole "swelled the elite ranks" is Maya's words or this blogger's own take on the matter.
AA probably feels the need to make changes because their elite ranks are swelling in an absolute sense, but any comparison to other domestic carriers seems disingenuous to me.
----
P.S. I was just reading more of this blogger's posts and see an Apr 22nd post stating the following:
I also wonder if this means that AA will make regular qualification for elite status tougher as well starting in 2012....??
Now I wonder how much of this whole "swelled the elite ranks" is Maya's words or this blogger's own take on the matter.
#637
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,574
I haven't read all 636 posts but I haven't seen anything that changes my opinion about 1MM/2MM:
(1) The programs make AA's partner miles more valuable than the competition's. When I know I have to buy miles as part of a product bundle, I actively look for AA miles over UA or DL - even in years when my UA status is higher.
(2) I very seriously doubt that the existence of the lifetime levels meaningfully and statistically impacts the flying experience of "regular" Plats/EXP's at all. In other words, the ratio of infrequent-flying Lifetime Plats occupying F seats to "regular" Plats occupying F seats is so negligibly small that it's immaterial. The guy who flies 50k this year isn't losing out on upgrades to the 2MM flier who flies once a year. The EXP flier is obviously unaffected. (I focus on upgrades since that's the potential scarce good that "swelled ranks" would compete for.)
To me, it seems in AA's business interest to keep the levels as they are. Selling partner miles is profitable and this program marginally increases demand for AA vs. UA/DL. Eliminate the program and the three majors effectively become equal. Some prefer OW, some prefer *A, some prefer ST - the point is that AA would lose the one "hook" they had to make a frequent *A or ST flier (like me) pass up their preferred miles to buy AA miles in all sorts of different product bundles. That's profit/revenue that far exceeds any tiny cost of providing the elite status to me (which I can only gain value from if I ... wait for it ... fly AA.)
(1) The programs make AA's partner miles more valuable than the competition's. When I know I have to buy miles as part of a product bundle, I actively look for AA miles over UA or DL - even in years when my UA status is higher.
(2) I very seriously doubt that the existence of the lifetime levels meaningfully and statistically impacts the flying experience of "regular" Plats/EXP's at all. In other words, the ratio of infrequent-flying Lifetime Plats occupying F seats to "regular" Plats occupying F seats is so negligibly small that it's immaterial. The guy who flies 50k this year isn't losing out on upgrades to the 2MM flier who flies once a year. The EXP flier is obviously unaffected. (I focus on upgrades since that's the potential scarce good that "swelled ranks" would compete for.)
To me, it seems in AA's business interest to keep the levels as they are. Selling partner miles is profitable and this program marginally increases demand for AA vs. UA/DL. Eliminate the program and the three majors effectively become equal. Some prefer OW, some prefer *A, some prefer ST - the point is that AA would lose the one "hook" they had to make a frequent *A or ST flier (like me) pass up their preferred miles to buy AA miles in all sorts of different product bundles. That's profit/revenue that far exceeds any tiny cost of providing the elite status to me (which I can only gain value from if I ... wait for it ... fly AA.)
#638
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,933
Is "the other programs" = OW carriers, or other domestic carriers? It makes sense to me that AA would "feel the need" not to be "swelled" compared to their OW partners (e.g., int'l lounge access). But it makes little sense to me that AA would "need to make changes" because United and Delta have fewer elites.
AA probably feels the need to make changes because their elite ranks are swelling in an absolute sense, but any comparison to other domestic carriers seems disingenuous to me.
AA probably feels the need to make changes because their elite ranks are swelling in an absolute sense, but any comparison to other domestic carriers seems disingenuous to me.
On the domestic issue: I don't' think the concern over "a bit more swelling" can be viewed by looking at the million imiler issue alone. It could be (but I none of this as a fact) that AA has also been evaluating adopting UDU (unlimited domestic upgrades) for PLT and/or GLD, ie getting rid of the need for "stickers" for those status leels (as is currently the case at AA for EXP only), and decided that UA/CO and DL can do that only because they have relatively tight control year-to-year of the ranks of each level (they can dynamically make it easier or harder to achieve elite status), while AA because of its relatively "swell" million miler program has only very long term control over its elite ranks.
Yes, if you don't consider UDU alongside, then comparing any "swelling" of AA relavity to UA/CO and DL may not be important. But if you're also looking at possibly broadening UDU down to more status levels (than just EXP, which not coincidentally is the only status level for which you cannot get lifetime staus), then comparing their million miler approach to that of the domestic competitors which have UDU and comletely different million miler program may be very relevant.
#639
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,933
I very seriously doubt that the existence of the lifetime levels meaningfully and statistically impacts the flying experience of "regular" Plats/EXP's at all. In other words, the ratio of infrequent-flying Lifetime Plats occupying F seats to "regular" Plats occupying F seats is so negligibly small that it's immaterial. The guy who flies 50k this year isn't losing out on upgrades to the 2MM flier who flies once a year.
Furhtermore, the lifetime status person is not necessarily flying only once, but perhaps a few times. In fact, they may have LT PLT, and be flying enough to qualify for GLD for all you know, but they get PLT instead of GLD priorirty for upgrades. (Of course, I've proposed that there are probably way more LT GLDs than LT PLTs before, but I don't acutally have hard facts, just my theory. )
To me, it seems in AA's business interest to keep the levels as they are. Selling partner miles is profitable and this program marginally increases demand for AA vs. UA/DL. Eliminate the program and the three majors effectively become equal. Some prefer OW, some prefer *A, some prefer ST - the point is that AA would lose the one "hook" they had to make a frequent *A or ST flier (like me) pass up their preferred miles to buy AA miles in all sorts of different product bundles. That's profit/revenue that far exceeds any tiny cost of providing the elite status to me (which I can only gain value from if I ... wait for it ... fly AA.)
Btw, that's one thing BIS only proponent(s), like favalarry69, don't take the time to make clear: If you think it should be BIS onlly, should it be Delta-style BIS on all elite-earning metal (ie, simply lifetime EQM), or should it be UA-style BIS on AA metal only? Why does one major competitor think it's better one way and the other think it's better the other way?
(Actually, the same question can be asked of anyone who feels it should be more than BIS only but less than "all miles count".)
#640
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: DSM
Programs: AA EXP .72MM
Posts: 188
This is an oversimplification. Yes, obviously, anyone who flies lots of times a year cannot be losing out on upgrades more than once to someone who flies only once a year. But they can still lose out that once, especially if lifetime status people tend to do mostly leisure travel booked far in advance, given that AA's current upgrade priority is based on time of booking within each status level. (Of course, AA could "fix" that by changing the algorithm for booking type, but for whatever reason they so far have felt that this simple algorithm is the best one.)
Furhtermore, the lifetime status person is not necessarily flying only once, but perhaps a few times. In fact, they may have LT PLT, and be flying enough to qualify for GLD for all you know, but they get PLT instead of GLD priorirty for upgrades. (Of course, I've proposed that there are probably way more LT GLDs than LT PLTs before, but I don't acutally have hard facts, just my theory. )
Well, there's precedent. Somehow Delta went through this same process around 1997 (from all miles counting, to mostly only BIS counting now including alliance partners). Now, the landscape was different in 1997 (I don't think FT quite existed yet, did it?, and were people churning Delta credit cards then the way they churned Citi cards the past decade?), but Delta did decide that it wanted to do it more like UA (BIS only not including alliance partners) than staying like AA. Of couse, since it was at least the "second last" to change from "all sources" to mostly "BIS only", it wasn't "the only left" with a unique program the way AA has been since.
Btw, that's one thing BIS only proponent(s), like favalarry69, don't take the time to make clear: If you think it should be BIS onlly, should it be Delta-style BIS on all elite-earning metal (ie, simply lifetime EQM), or should it be UA-style BIS on AA metal only? Why does one major competitor think it's better one way and the other think it's better the other way?
(Actually, the same question can be asked of anyone who feels it should be more than BIS only but less than "all miles count".)
Furhtermore, the lifetime status person is not necessarily flying only once, but perhaps a few times. In fact, they may have LT PLT, and be flying enough to qualify for GLD for all you know, but they get PLT instead of GLD priorirty for upgrades. (Of course, I've proposed that there are probably way more LT GLDs than LT PLTs before, but I don't acutally have hard facts, just my theory. )
Well, there's precedent. Somehow Delta went through this same process around 1997 (from all miles counting, to mostly only BIS counting now including alliance partners). Now, the landscape was different in 1997 (I don't think FT quite existed yet, did it?, and were people churning Delta credit cards then the way they churned Citi cards the past decade?), but Delta did decide that it wanted to do it more like UA (BIS only not including alliance partners) than staying like AA. Of couse, since it was at least the "second last" to change from "all sources" to mostly "BIS only", it wasn't "the only left" with a unique program the way AA has been since.
Btw, that's one thing BIS only proponent(s), like favalarry69, don't take the time to make clear: If you think it should be BIS onlly, should it be Delta-style BIS on all elite-earning metal (ie, simply lifetime EQM), or should it be UA-style BIS on AA metal only? Why does one major competitor think it's better one way and the other think it's better the other way?
(Actually, the same question can be asked of anyone who feels it should be more than BIS only but less than "all miles count".)
I wonder if AA is going to tinker with the miles/points/segments needed for yearly qualification for elite statuses?
#641
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,433
Isn't that one of the main rules of FT posting - what's best for the poster is best for the airline? That's one of the reasons FT posters know more than airline executives about how to run airlines.
#642
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
In the context of her comments it was a reference to DL, US, CO and UA.
The point being made was in the context of the question "are elites really all that special when we see upgrade waitlists of dozens of people on some flights?" so it wasn't necessarily that they all want to have the same number of elites but that the 1MM and 2MM levels on AA have more and that can make it harder to deliver value to those customers.
She said those words directly based on my recollection of the events.
I had a slightly different take than gleff did on her comments regarding changes. He interpreted her reply as that something is definitely changing. I think she probably meant that but she didn't actually say it. More like a "we are always looking at ways to improve the program" type of comment that means everything and nothing all at once, depending on how much you want to read in to it.
But it makes little sense to me that AA would "need to make changes" because United and Delta have fewer elites.
AA probably feels the need to make changes because their elite ranks are swelling in an absolute sense, but any comparison to other domestic carriers seems disingenuous to me.
AA probably feels the need to make changes because their elite ranks are swelling in an absolute sense, but any comparison to other domestic carriers seems disingenuous to me.
I had a slightly different take than gleff did on her comments regarding changes. He interpreted her reply as that something is definitely changing. I think she probably meant that but she didn't actually say it. More like a "we are always looking at ways to improve the program" type of comment that means everything and nothing all at once, depending on how much you want to read in to it.
#643
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: JFK, DCA, BUR, YVR
Programs: AC, AS, BA, DL, HH (D), MR (T/LTP), UA (*S), UScAAre (PLT/1,87MM), WN
Posts: 5,207
Like some others who have posted my preference is holding a position in AMR for about 7 to 10 days. Bought on Monday after reading the blogger's "alpha" article before market open. Sold on Wednesday around noon for +6%. Not even going to whine that if I sold today it would have been over 8% as the 6% will easily buy this retiree a couple more flights.
OK back to the regular program about the speculation and those who whine about the speculation. Just keep it from getting personal
OK back to the regular program about the speculation and those who whine about the speculation. Just keep it from getting personal
(2) I very seriously doubt that the existence of the lifetime levels meaningfully and statistically impacts the flying experience of "regular" Plats/EXP's at all. In other words, the ratio of infrequent-flying Lifetime Plats occupying F seats to "regular" Plats occupying F seats is so negligibly small that it's immaterial. The guy who flies 50k this year isn't losing out on upgrades to the 2MM flier who flies once a year. The EXP flier is obviously unaffected. (I focus on upgrades since that's the potential scarce good that "swelled ranks" would compete for.)
To me, it seems in AA's business interest to keep the levels as they are. Selling partner miles is profitable and this program marginally increases demand for AA vs. UA/DL. Eliminate the program and the three majors effectively become equal. Some prefer OW, some prefer *A, some prefer ST - the point is that AA would lose the one "hook" they had to make a frequent *A or ST flier (like me) pass up their preferred miles to buy AA miles in all sorts of different product bundles. That's profit/revenue that far exceeds any tiny cost of providing the elite status to me (which I can only gain value from if I ... wait for it ... fly AA.)
To me, it seems in AA's business interest to keep the levels as they are. Selling partner miles is profitable and this program marginally increases demand for AA vs. UA/DL. Eliminate the program and the three majors effectively become equal. Some prefer OW, some prefer *A, some prefer ST - the point is that AA would lose the one "hook" they had to make a frequent *A or ST flier (like me) pass up their preferred miles to buy AA miles in all sorts of different product bundles. That's profit/revenue that far exceeds any tiny cost of providing the elite status to me (which I can only gain value from if I ... wait for it ... fly AA.)
Furhtermore, the lifetime status person is not necessarily flying only once, but perhaps a few times. In fact, they may have LT PLT, and be flying enough to qualify for GLD for all you know, but they get PLT instead of GLD priorirty for upgrades. (Of course, I've proposed that there are probably way more LT GLDs than LT PLTs before, but I don't acutally have hard facts, just my theory. )
Well, there's precedent. Somehow Delta went through this same process around 1997 (from all miles counting, to mostly only BIS counting now including alliance partners). Now, the landscape was different in 1997 (I don't think FT quite existed yet, did it?, and were people churning Delta credit cards then the way they churned Citi cards the past decade?), but Delta did decide that it wanted to do it more like UA (BIS only not including alliance partners) than staying like AA. Of couse, since it was at least the "second last" to change from "all sources" to mostly "BIS only", it wasn't "the only left" with a unique program the way AA has been since.
Btw, that's one thing BIS only proponent(s), like favalarry69, don't take the time to make clear: If you think it should be BIS onlly, should it be Delta-style BIS on all elite-earning metal (ie, simply lifetime EQM), or should it be UA-style BIS on AA metal only? Why does one major competitor think it's better one way and the other think it's better the other way?
(Actually, the same question can be asked of anyone who feels it should be more than BIS only but less than "all miles count".)
Well, there's precedent. Somehow Delta went through this same process around 1997 (from all miles counting, to mostly only BIS counting now including alliance partners). Now, the landscape was different in 1997 (I don't think FT quite existed yet, did it?, and were people churning Delta credit cards then the way they churned Citi cards the past decade?), but Delta did decide that it wanted to do it more like UA (BIS only not including alliance partners) than staying like AA. Of couse, since it was at least the "second last" to change from "all sources" to mostly "BIS only", it wasn't "the only left" with a unique program the way AA has been since.
Btw, that's one thing BIS only proponent(s), like favalarry69, don't take the time to make clear: If you think it should be BIS onlly, should it be Delta-style BIS on all elite-earning metal (ie, simply lifetime EQM), or should it be UA-style BIS on AA metal only? Why does one major competitor think it's better one way and the other think it's better the other way?
(Actually, the same question can be asked of anyone who feels it should be more than BIS only but less than "all miles count".)
BIS only means actual miles flown on AA or American Eagle or American Connection...No 500 mile minimum or elite Bonuses unles you want to make that a benefit of EXP and maybe PLT members...The 500 mile minimums and bonuses still counting for yearly EQM and RDMs.
I wonder if AA is going to tinker with the miles/points/segments needed for yearly qualification for elite statuses?
I wonder if AA is going to tinker with the miles/points/segments needed for yearly qualification for elite statuses?
#644
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA LT Gold; BA Silver; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 3,081
Recap of Maya Leibman's remarks on the subject yesterday morning (4/29/2011) at Randy's confab, excerpted from the View from the Wing blog.
#645
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: BOS/UTH
Programs: AA LT PLT; QR GLD; Bonvoy LT TIT
Posts: 12,753
Thanks, dayone. What this tells me is that I'm still likely to hit 1 million (currently at 904,000 with a plan to hit 1 million by year end), but 2 million is probably out of the question because I don't fly enough. Their game, their rules, they can do whatever they want, but what it means is that I'll be expending a lot less energy accumulating AA miles after I hit 1K, probably won't bother transferring miles from my husband's account, etc. Bottom line- they'll lose revenue from me.