techgirl

I've searched for this on the forum but haven't found directly relevant discussion.

I've been trying to book a couple of Asia trips and have been searching availability on various routes through NRT for November through January and I'm finding that AA codeshares on JL that used to connect to the US-NRT flights on AA metal rarely show up on my search options anymore - and when they do, they are the most expensive options.

My cheapest options are flying CX metal all the way from the US... and to stay on AA metal transpacific, I'd need to transfer to Haneda and catch a non-codeshare on JL from there.

This is counter to almost a decade of prior experience in booking these. I've tried forcing the schedule using multi-city booking and have sampled a variety of destinations to see if this seems to be an anomaly.

Has JL reduced availability of these to AA? Are they retooling the schedule with regard to the open skies agreement?

snowymt

I think JAL has reduced the number of flights period. In my case, I have always connected from NRT-SIN, however JAL has reduced the number of flights from NRT-SIN to just one now and it flies out at 10am (the US to NRT flights usually get in after 2pm), so now the options are to overnight at NRT and take the next 10am flight out, or transfer to Haneda for their midnight flight. The route from SIN-NRT is still thankfully kept on the same time schedule so the return trip is untouched. But now it looks like flying out of LAX to HKG through Cathay is going to be the US-Asia route for me at least.

techgirl

The old pm NRT-SIN is the one of the ones I was specifically looking for and I'd seen the newer midnight Haneda flight there.

Has JL also dropped F on the SIN route? The old SIN-NRT used to be three-class and included use of JetQuay if booked in F.

I want to fly into NRT so I can use up remaining VIPs... but from there, it looks like it might make more sense to book an award and fly CX and forget dealing with the overpriced code shares.

headinclouds

F is gone on NRT-SIN, but is back on NRT-CGK. I believe that there is strong competition from ANA on the flights to Indonesia.

inlanikai

Bummer! Me too. I always took the evening NRT-SIN flight after arriving on AA167. Oh well, looks like CX gets my business JFK-HKG-SIN. Better timing too.

skye1

Had the same problem trying to book flights for this year's SIN Do. Have always gone to NRT (with eVIPs) and onward on the JAL/AA Codeshare. This year, nope, no NRT-SIN flights after the AA flights land, and only the redeye from HND. The rock/hard place was that, in using this as a bit of an MR, actually had upgrades clear at booking, all the way from LHR--USA--NRT.

NYBanker

JL is in the midst of a significant restructuring. Their entire route network is being regularly reworked and downsized.

This is less to do with any AA/jl issues but really the future of jl.

techgirl

This is putting me back to being a "maybe" for the SIN Do if I can't get reasonable flights which is why I'm frustrated. My other option may be to get to Asia and then find award seats on either OW or "A to get me to SIN... or do what I used to do for SIN runs and book AA to NRT and the UA to SIN. Decisions, decisions. Prices are still so high that I'm reluctant to pull the trigger just yet until my work schedule is 100% for January as I'm hoping to piggyback it with work trips on one or both ends to defer the cost for me.

gator232

First post! LT 2 million miler here. (3 million in 5 mths or so)

Same problem here going DFW-NRT-SIN. Since all the JAL flights to/from SIN now route out of Haneda. Only option now is to go CX via HKG. Sucks.

AA now flies JFK - HND. Which is a good alternative but few award flights available. Am considering going East via LHR on the new 380. A bit longer but considering trying it in 1st just to see what it's like on a Qantas 380.

brenc3

This lack of availability on JL codeshares is indeed a problem. It's been an issue for years, but IME has been worse in the last year or so. You can get the codeshares (and/or NRT connection) to appear in searches through creative use of the search tool, like booking a multi-city trip and forcing a stop in NRT or your favorite US-NRT gateway.

In some cases even if you don't book the NRT-(xxx) codeshare on JL, you can still get a decent fare to come up under the JL/CX code for the onward segment. But this is of course a problem. DL and UA can fly onwards from NRT and direct from US to many other cities. This means that they can burn SWUs and earn EQM under their normal rules, and sometimes bypass NRT altogether. This is much harder/impossible on AA, and I accept that - AA's other FF benefits make it worthwhile to stay. But shopping for fares and finding ~$1200 on DL/UA and ~$2500 on AA (via NRT) for similar itineraries puts AA at too much of a disadvantage (especially when removing the NRT-xxx segment brings the fare to ~$900).

Add to this the fact that ex-Japan fares are often much higher than the reverse. Try looking up some sample fares Japan-Taiwan, and then the reverse - the difference in lowest Y fare is often 2x - 3x. This of course makes the need to get on a continuing codeshare flight even more critical since booking a separate ticket may be too expensive.

Based on my own travel patterns, this is possibly my single biggest obstacle to AA loyalty.

JALPak

Welcome to FT and AA forum, gator232!

This is not true at all. JAL still operates SIN flights from NRT, only the evening flight is not ex-HND. Just the ex-NRT flight departs too early for you to catch it.

gator232

Yes you are right. AA needs to do something about that.

Reading this I wonder if it'll happen soon.

http://www.aa.com/i18n/urls/moreasia...ryId=undefined

For now I am looking at the earliest award opening of only 1st class of April 29th for AUS-JFK-HND-SIN with no return flight in sight. This pretty much renders most of my 970,000 miles useless since I travel almost exclusively AUS-SIN-AUS. Only option is to take the NRT HND train. Going the CX route is no help either as award seats are practically impossible to find.

Thinking of switching to Star Alliance.

kebosabi

JAL's HND-SIN leaves at 2330PM or so.

So it is possible to do US-NRT which arrives in the afternoon, take a transfer bus to HND (about 2hrs), and then do HND-SIN. Whether this combination will show up as a legal transfer is another question, but it does come up as a valid connection on the oneworld timetable.

Even doing DFW-NRT, HND-SIN should be more than ample time given the on time performance of Japanese trains.

Overall NRT to HND transfers should be doable; minus the factor that you need to pay out of pocket for that transfer whether by means of Airport Limousine Bus or the train.

brenc3

I'd disagree with this. I did SAN-LAX-HKG-SIN r/t over Christmas week and ended up making 3-4 changes to the ticket to move classes and dates as they became available. But I was surprised how much availability there was during a holiday week.

JY1024

Welcome to FlyerTalk and the AA forum, gator232!

Just to pitch in my two cents, I (and many other FTers) have actually had pretty decent luck finding F award seats on CX. I personally redeem a couple CX F awards each year. If I can't find F award inventory, I'll sometimes first book a J award, then call back to upgrade to an F if/when it becomes available. (I use the AsiaMiles site to help look for CX award inventory. Occasionally I'll get lazy and just call the EXP desk to have them check, too.)