ss2000

I am sure this has been discussed before (searched the forums, couldn't find a thread) but does Alaska plan on having lie flat seats anytime soon? I love Alaska and love the upgrades but the seats are okay at best. Some of these flights are 6+ hours long and I think they would benefit greatly with lie flats or atleast a bit better hard product.

eponymous_coward

No, they do not, if by "anytime soon" you mean "before 2018 and the VX acquisition is all done and dusted".

The current refit plans do not at the present time include lie-flat seats:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/alask...out-there.html

No announcements have been made regarding the VX fleet. Not surprising because the acquisition hasn't happened yet.

AA/UA and DL currently fly many transcon-length routes without lie-flat seats. It is an open question whether the legacies can make lie-flats work in non-NYC-California markets. I suspect that B6 Mint is going to push competitors that way, and that includes AS.

jiburi

Technically, as first of A321 is scheduled to be delivered to VX in 2017, if and when AS merger is completed, it should be then when AS will have the first lie-flat delivered to AS/VX merged company.

Jiburi

eponymous_coward

http://www.briansumers.com/home/2016...and-california

Emphasis added.

dayone

VX plans for its next-gen F seat, scheduled for 2018, were not lie-flat. It seems very unlikely that AS would go lie-flat when VX had no such plans.

VX's reasons for staying cradle were to maintain the existing F cabin footprint, deliver a consistent F experience systemwide, and avoid the extra costs of a subfleet.

Madone59

+1

The future AS/VX network will be great but lie flats would only be relevant/ competitive on very few markets which would limit the planes with those seats to specific routes and turns. For an airline as small as AS/VX that could quickly an albatross.

Lie flat seats are expensive, heavy and take up a lot of space. That included with the previously noted fleet issues and that AS would going toe to toe with the big 3 on premium routes it's fair to say it wont happen.

eponymous_coward

B6 is about the same size as AS. Mint seems to work for them enoguh to expand it out of initial markets it debuted in, so why couldn't it work for AS? How is it that they can live with a subfleet?

dayone

Adding complexity in the midst of merger is seldom a good idea. "Integrate before [you] innovate."

SFOPeter

We had a thread about this that got a bit tenuous for whatever reason. It basically boils down to three choices, ordered below in what I think is the most likely to least likely.

- Use the planned new domestic F and premium economy. AS already decided on this seating knowing they were going to expand transcons. However on head to head routes with lieflat they will need to charge significantly less for F. AS currently charges the same or more vs lieflat on SEA-JFK or SJC-EWR (which imo is very similar to UA's SFO-EWR route although others disagree). I think priced right they would fill these F cabins.

- Crossfleet the existing 63 VX A320s on all transcon routes. The VX planes have somewhat competitive F, good IFE, and are more comfortable for longer flights. This would integrate the AS and VX fleets very quickly in a rational way: long flight cool VX plane, short and mid range flight AS plane. However the VX A320 has far fewer seats than the AS 739 (8/12/129 vs 16/24/138) so this would be a financial hit. And it would require adding A320 bases in SEA and PDX.

- Subfleet with a new lieflat F on 737-900 or A321. This would be a couple years at least, and doesn't seem to be the way they would go looking at past AS decisions. However B6 is being super aggressive with Mint so who knows!

channa

That quote is catchy, but it ignores the fact that in a merger situation there are different competitive factors and different customer segments involved.

If this stuff didn't take substantial time and capital to do, sure, standardize/normalize everything one day, then figure out how to expand the next.

But that's the difference between a textbook and reality.

UA/CO is a great example of how they standardized without taking enough time to understand the customer base from the other entity, and they made some shortsighted decisions as a result. Sure they standardized the product and policies and systems, but they drove away large numbers of customers in the process. They continue to pay the price for this strategic error to this day.

eponymous_coward

Note my original post in this thread...

dayone

You're confusing standardize/normalize with integrate.

UA/CO is not a great example of anything. And it did not standardize aircraft cabins, crewing or contracts.

sdsearch

Is there any US-based airline that has lie-flat seats on 737s?

Is there any US-based airline that has lie-flat seats on A321 other than on NYC-SFO/LAX flights (with special configurations limited to those routes)?

With that NYC-SFO/LAX exception, lie-flat seats on single-aisle aircraft tend to be only trans-oceanic flights such as 757s that go to Europe AFAIK. But AS flies no such flights.

Other than that, lie-flat seats are mostly on two-aisle aircraft, and I haven't heard of AS having any plans for those.

notquiteaff

JetBlue with Mint?

http://www.jetblue.com/flying-on-jetblue/mint/

(BOS service, and also US-Carib routes, and they have of course announced several additional domestic routes; see map on that page)

SFO777

Lie flat seats? AS? LOL. Good one.