blueheronNC

Just completed SJC-OGG and OGG-SJC, both in F. It was absolutely striking (not just to me, but to many other F pax) how poorly enforced the F lav policy was by the flight attendants. It was incredible how on both legs, you had a steady stream of Y passengers lining up either behind the curtain at row 5 or even standing at row 4 of F waiting for the forward lav to open up. The flight attendants were mighty shy about saying anything. Multiple F passengers complained about the steady stream of traffic; "part of the F experience and the reason you pay extra is to avoid the noise and bustle".

If anything, the flight attendants made excuses for the Y passengers. They said, "well, we have a cart in the aisle blocking the back lavs, so if you have to go, you have to go." However, even when the cart was not in the Y aisle, the attendants were quiet as church mice, even joking with Y passengers as they passed by the galley on the way to the F lav. You even had Y passengers gunning it past F pax who were getting up from their seats to use the F lav! On OGG-SJC, 3/4 of the way into the flight, one flight attendant finally stood at the curtain saying "well now that all meal service is done, you can't come forward" (this was after 6 or 7 F pax collectively complained). It confused the Y passengers who had already gotten used to busting through the curtain to come forward, so one started a heated verbal argument with the FA about applying the policy inconsistently ("you've let everyone else do it so far") and more philosophically ("the folks up there aren't better than us!").

Frankly, the FA lost control of the situation on both flights. On UA/US/DL/AA flights where I've sat in F, with very few exceptions, the FAs will use an iron fist and get downright snippy/mean/confrontational in order to enforce the F lav policy. I've even seen them bluff-threaten TSA action on landing (citing that wishy-washy FAA "rule" about it being for security purposes).

So why does AS let this policy slide? Is it because the higher volume of leisure travelers means far fewer people are going to know and respect the "rules of the road"? Is it because F is treated as a less distinct product than Y (generous upgrade policies, 24-hour upgrades for $50-200 is far lower than other domestic airlines offer)? I have to say that aside from the superior food than you get flying F in the lower 48, the F experience felt halfway between your typical domestic F experience and "EconomyPlus".

Eastbay1K

A lot of AS gate agents, not trying to make waves and be nice, let people on when it isn't their boarding time, either.

AS did a terrible disservice by stopping deliveries with the mid-cabin lav after it took possession of its first handful of 739s. They have created a point of avoidable conflict on almost every single flight, now that the fleet is almost all 738/739s. Yes, it would have cost money, but this is an issue on almost every single flight. I cannot tell you how many times I've been at my seat, waiting for the F lav to open (as one cannot congregate/wait by the door, and I'm certainly not going to "start a line" at row 6 when I'm seated in rows 1-4) when someone from the back will dart up. Yes, I do "feel" for those in the front of Y, as it is a "long trip back" and between carts in the aisle, and the % of time with the seatbelt sign on for "expected possible maybe turbulence" that never occurs, but some crews need to do a much better job keeping the forward lav for the forward pax.

apodo77

I think this is an issue on all airlines not unique to AS.

Seen it happen on Continental, United, AA and Delta over the years on any single aisle aircraft with no mid cabin lavatory.

A320, 738 and 739's should all have mid cabin lavs if the airlines cared about this problem. Delta's new 739's don't have the mid cabin lav either.

Unfortunately I think it is what it is and personally think the FA's allow it to happen to avoid any confrontation.

flytoeat

Please send your comments to Alaska.

blueheronNC

I'm sure a business calculus has already been made that the negative publicity they'd get from Y passengers pissed off at surly FA on social media (Twitter, Yelp, etc.) outweighs the complaints of F passengers. It's not like we're going to turn down F just because of this (or switch our flying to other airlines on these routes where it's tough-as-nails to even end up in F). In the Lower 48, the threat of a 1K or GS on UA switching to CP on US, etc. is what drives profits, so airlines need to compete for those high-revenue pax and keep them happy (meaning you, for example, focus on planes with organizational logic such as mid-cabin lavs on high-yield routes to avoid these issues). On AS routes, it's the leisure travelers, not those up front. It seems like they are doing the rational thing, which unfortunately waters down the F product.

Short of taking delivery of planes with mid-Y lavs, but what's done is done. That seems the only solution to keep everyone reasonably happy.

MonThruThurs

This usually doesn't bother me, except when I'm sitting in F, have to use the bathroom, and someone from Y is in there. Then I get a little irritated.

I personally would like to see AS enforce this a little better, but I'm not holding my breath. Also, I would rather AS piss a low rev. potential coach customer over anyone with status. The business decision make those that fly the most happy.

UAPremierExec

Its even worse when there IS no divider. I'm starting to question spending a few dollars on my trips to Hawai'i as an MVP Gold (for instant upgrade) and just enjoy the exit row. My last flight we constantly had people from Y coming up to F and using our seatbacks to help them walk, which mean push down, then back -- and waking me up everytime someone would do it.

At least Spirit Airlines is getting MORE HONEST -- its a BIG FRONT SEAT. I'm waiting for Alaska to finally wake up and do that, they keep eroding at the product. The legroom on my 737-800 was noticebly more trim compared to my 737-400 flight - I'm really going to miss those "old" birds... at least they're comfortable.

MonThruThurs

This is the worst. Unless you're prepared to take someone to the mat on this issue, there's really nothing you can do outside of passive aggressively staring someone down. Although, the head turnaround and glare can be somewhat effective.

andymell

For some reason, I think the AS Hawaii flights are worse than others. My guess would be that this is because of a few factors:
* Inexperienced flyers don't know to "go before you go".
* Children and older folks who need to go more frequently.
* Aisle blocked both by carts and by people who are congregating in the back for no apparent reason.
* Frequent cart service -- three drink services instead of the usual two.

Yes, FAs should enforce this -- especially when the cart is not in the aisle. Sometimes they do, but they can't be everywhere at once. I'd complain if I saw an FA obviously not enforcing while there was no cart in the aisle.

AKLifetimeFlyer

I fly AS and DL F quite frequently. From my experience, this problem is an equally common occurrence on both airlines.

prmetime

From someone who flies Y regularly on AS, I have to add a comment here. I have flown BLI to HNL/OGG return several times and if you are seated near the front of the plane it is very challenging to find a time when the flight attendant's carts are not in the one aisle of these planes. I avoid drinking much of anything on the plane because of this fact. I do realize that people using the F toilet provide an inconvenience to you but there are times when Y passengers are going to have to use your toilet. Just be thankful you're in F !

UAPremierExec

Maybe Alaska should install a "lovatory" ^_^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qdv20WhjAA8

(BBC series Come Fly With Me - cast of Little Britain)

Tony10s

The FA's request that people in Coach use the lavatories in rear of plane
But I've heard from AS FA's that they can get in trouble ( written up) if they deny the "wrong" person use of the lav up front.

Remember you have everyone sitting in Coach from newbies to MVP G 75k'ers

sltlyamusd

It's simply a business decision. If they were to install a mid-cabin lav, they would lose a row of seats. 157 seats versus 163 on the -800. Having the curtain-only divider allows closer spacing between the first row of Y and the last row of F. Furthermore, it has also been mentioned that the mid-cabin lav decreases marketability on secondary market.

I would rather have a mid-cabin lav, too, but I'm sure the bean counters said they'd rather have the extra revenue from 6 more seats.

Alaska F/As and gate agents tend to have a rather non-confrontational attitude. I think it's part of the company culture, and part of trying to please the customer. Having lived in the PacNW, I would also say it's kind of a cultural thing. Very different attitude from NYC or BOS, for example. I think the downside to this hesitancy to confront customers is the boarding free-for-all that sometimes occurs, and the tendency for Y pax to use the F lav.

ANC

First off I completely agree! Ive had it happen quite a bit on long hauls particularly. Its typically not enforced at all. I can see the F passengers side and view on it and I can see why the FAs dont do much about it on the flip side. Part of the problem is AS only has a hand full of jets with mid cabin lavatories and opted for 3 in the back for whatever reason but Im sure it came down to cost and/or seats that could be installed. There is no sense of emailing AS....they will just deposit 2000 miles to your account to get the issue to go away. With that being said if Im on an upgrade yeah ok whatever I didnt pay much to sit up there. If I paid for F and plop down $1500 or $2000 on a round trip ticket to Hawaii then it starts to really bother me. I do have to give kudos though to the FA on my last trip from PDX-OGG. After about an hour she actually got fed up with the Y potty parade after they kept waiting by row 1. When the line got 3 deep at row 1 is what I think drew the line for her. She actually SHUT the curtain!!! I cant even recall the last time I seen that curtain shut ^ I understand natures call and all that buzz but thats ok, go to row 29 and wait your turn if you are in Y. I do if Im in coach so Im not a DYKWIA elite that thinks if Im in row 8 I still have F lav access. Maybe thats just a habit from my NW days where it was not tolerated at all. AA doesnt put up with it either. What AS uses as a cop out is that they dont really have a "policy"