Air Berlin vs EC261
Aug 28, 2016, 1:21 pm
#31
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Just to be clear, the form showing your rights is relatively meaningless and won't tell you anything you have not learned here or could not find in a few minutes of research on the Internet.
The point is that AB was required to provide it to you and failed to do so. Do not ask for it.
Do ask:
1. The reason for the delay. You won't likely get an accurate an answer. But, you might.
2. For EUR 600 in compensation and the "duty of care" reimbursement. It is payable in cash or equivalent (check or bank deposit). A credit voucher with AB is not acceptable unless you want it to be. This is when you seek a manager up to and including the station manager and this is when you point out that AB failed to provide the statement when it was required to do so. It is just a means of hopefully pushing the manager into doing something. Don't expect to succeed. Just push at each level.
Bear in mind that the most recent study suggests that less than 2% of eligible EC 261/2004 claims are even made. Presumably fewer are paid and people simply drop them because they give up. Therefore, making it hard is to AB's substantial advantage. If you become one of the 2% who make a claim and get paid, that is good for you.
The point is that AB was required to provide it to you and failed to do so. Do not ask for it.
Do ask:
1. The reason for the delay. You won't likely get an accurate an answer. But, you might.
2. For EUR 600 in compensation and the "duty of care" reimbursement. It is payable in cash or equivalent (check or bank deposit). A credit voucher with AB is not acceptable unless you want it to be. This is when you seek a manager up to and including the station manager and this is when you point out that AB failed to provide the statement when it was required to do so. It is just a means of hopefully pushing the manager into doing something. Don't expect to succeed. Just push at each level.
Bear in mind that the most recent study suggests that less than 2% of eligible EC 261/2004 claims are even made. Presumably fewer are paid and people simply drop them because they give up. Therefore, making it hard is to AB's substantial advantage. If you become one of the 2% who make a claim and get paid, that is good for you.
Last edited by Often1; Aug 28, 2016 at 3:19 pm
Aug 30, 2016, 4:06 pm
#32
formerly southsidesilver
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Diego,CA
Programs: BA Gold, UA Silver, HH Diamond
Posts: 996
Do ask:
1. The reason for the delay. You won't likely get an accurate an answer. But, you might.
2. For EUR 600 in compensation and the "duty of care" reimbursement. It is payable in cash or equivalent (check or bank deposit). A credit voucher with AB is not acceptable unless you want it to be. This is when you seek a manager up to and including the station manager and this is when you point out that AB failed to provide the statement when it was required to do so. It is just a means of hopefully pushing the manager into doing something. Don't expect to succeed. Just push at each level.
Bear in mind that the most recent study suggests that less than 2% of eligible EC 261/2004 claims are even made. Presumably fewer are paid and people simply drop them because they give up. Therefore, making it hard is to AB's substantial advantage. If you become one of the 2% who make a claim and get paid, that is good for you.
1. The reason for the delay. You won't likely get an accurate an answer. But, you might.
2. For EUR 600 in compensation and the "duty of care" reimbursement. It is payable in cash or equivalent (check or bank deposit). A credit voucher with AB is not acceptable unless you want it to be. This is when you seek a manager up to and including the station manager and this is when you point out that AB failed to provide the statement when it was required to do so. It is just a means of hopefully pushing the manager into doing something. Don't expect to succeed. Just push at each level.
Bear in mind that the most recent study suggests that less than 2% of eligible EC 261/2004 claims are even made. Presumably fewer are paid and people simply drop them because they give up. Therefore, making it hard is to AB's substantial advantage. If you become one of the 2% who make a claim and get paid, that is good for you.
I guess I will start there.
Sep 29, 2016, 8:02 am
#33
formerly southsidesilver
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Diego,CA
Programs: BA Gold, UA Silver, HH Diamond
Posts: 996
Just to update, its been a month of back and fourth so far with Air Berlin.
First they offered me 100 EUR voucher, then 250 EUR voucher, then 400 EUR voucher, all to used on Air Berlin or NIKI.
I have declined the most recent offer and have just mailed them a notice of action to the address in this forum..Lets see where we go from here.
First they offered me 100 EUR voucher, then 250 EUR voucher, then 400 EUR voucher, all to used on Air Berlin or NIKI.
I have declined the most recent offer and have just mailed them a notice of action to the address in this forum..Lets see where we go from here.
Sep 29, 2016, 8:28 am
#35
formerly southsidesilver
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Diego,CA
Programs: BA Gold, UA Silver, HH Diamond
Posts: 996
Just make sure that having sent this that you do "act". There is absoltely nothing worse than having sent any such notice and then dropping it.
Oct 28, 2016, 2:14 pm
#36
formerly southsidesilver
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Diego,CA
Programs: BA Gold, UA Silver, HH Diamond
Posts: 996
Just to update. To start they said they could give me a 250 EUR voucher to use, I said no, then it was 400 EUR voucher, I said no.
Now they are offering me 250 EUR in cash. I have said no.
Now they are offering me 250 EUR in cash. I have said no.
Nov 3, 2016, 8:14 am
#38
formerly southsidesilver
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Diego,CA
Programs: BA Gold, UA Silver, HH Diamond
Posts: 996
Just to update you all. On Monday I received an e-mail from Air Berlin that they would pay me the full 600 EURO's.
The money is in my account today.
I want to thank everyone for the help and advice they gave me on here, it really helped and i'm glad I waited it out and got the full amount without having to give a percentage to EU claim or a service like that.
From the date of the delay until payment I had sent them 7 e-mails via the complaints portal and 2 letters to Air Berlin in the UK.
Many thanks all.
The money is in my account today.
I want to thank everyone for the help and advice they gave me on here, it really helped and i'm glad I waited it out and got the full amount without having to give a percentage to EU claim or a service like that.
From the date of the delay until payment I had sent them 7 e-mails via the complaints portal and 2 letters to Air Berlin in the UK.
Many thanks all.
Nov 11, 2016, 6:58 am
#40
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Berlin, TXL
Programs: OW Emerald, *A gold, Skyteam elite plus, Hilton gold, SPG gold
Posts: 339
Mods, pleas don't move this just yet, it involves a One World partner, but mainly because the advice from another FT forum won't be near the calibre of this one.
Our Air Berlin flight into Berlin missed our connecting BA to LHR by some 20 minutes. Air Berlin customer services eventually put us on the first available BA (next day), voucher for a modest hotel, said to take taxis and submit receipts , and gave me their addres for "compensation" (did not tell us our entitlement, or the reason for delay) .
I duly submitted a claim for the taxis, and €400 for each of our family of seven per EC261.
Air Berlin replied today saying airlines are often delayed for various reasons(none stated), and offering €100 off a next flight with them, nothing else.
FT, should I consider this a natural attempt to avoid liability and simply e mail back refusing to accept their offer quoting EC261/2004 (again), hoping that they realise that is not going to be the end of the matter? Or should I immediately resort to one of the companies that will initiate proceedings in Germany against AB for a %?
Our Air Berlin flight into Berlin missed our connecting BA to LHR by some 20 minutes. Air Berlin customer services eventually put us on the first available BA (next day), voucher for a modest hotel, said to take taxis and submit receipts , and gave me their addres for "compensation" (did not tell us our entitlement, or the reason for delay) .
I duly submitted a claim for the taxis, and €400 for each of our family of seven per EC261.
Air Berlin replied today saying airlines are often delayed for various reasons(none stated), and offering €100 off a next flight with them, nothing else.
FT, should I consider this a natural attempt to avoid liability and simply e mail back refusing to accept their offer quoting EC261/2004 (again), hoping that they realise that is not going to be the end of the matter? Or should I immediately resort to one of the companies that will initiate proceedings in Germany against AB for a %?
Nov 22, 2016, 8:49 am
#41
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Gdynia, Poland
Posts: 631
Well, it's my turn to complain about AB and to ask for your advice.
On the 12th of November AB cancelled my flight from AUH to TXL and it caused really annoying chain reaction.
I was in C and was informed about cancellation by staff in EY lounge, not by AB ground personel so I don't know the exact reason of cancellation. However, I heard conversation of other passengers who were informed by this personel that members of AB crew on this flight exceeded working time limits and were not allowed to fly further.
I was rebooked to EY flight to ROM (approx. 6 hours later) and then AB to TXL, where I arrived at 4.30 pm. My original time of arrival to TXL was 10 hours earlier, at approx. 6.30 am. What's worse, I had another flight from TXL to HEL at noon, which of course I was not able to catch because of AUH-TXL cancellation. In consequence, I lost also my last flight from HEL to GDN, where I was supposed to be at 5.30 pm on the 12th of November. TXL-HEL-GDN was on one ticket issued by AY and it was separate from AUH-TXL flight.
In result, I was forced to go to Gdansk by bus and I arrived there at 5.30 am on the 13th of November, so 12 hours later than originally planned.
And this is not the end. AB lost my luggage, so I traveled from TXL to ZOB station (where I waited for 4 hours for my bus) and further to Gdansk by bus without any winter clothes, only in trousers and shirt, in temperature below 0!
Now, to the point. Right after I came back home I sent a complaint to AB and described all these details. Today I received an answer and I just don't know what to say... The only thing they say is how sorry they are and that they hope that I'll still be flying with them. Not even one word about any kind of compensation!
Their explanation is as follows:
"According to our flight documentation the flight could not be operated as scheduled due to exceptional circumstances.
We kindly ask for your understanding that we are not liable for possible consequential costs in such cases"
Of course, I'll send them a reply but I have no doubts that their attitude will bring this case to court. And this is, what I'd like to ask you about. Do you know, from your own experience or from any other source, German lawyer who deals with such cases and is worth of recommendation? I'm determined to go as far as I can to get compensation which I'm entitled to. In this case we're talking about considerable amount of money (EUR 600 on basis of EC 261 + my damages caused by cancellation of flight), so I find it worth of effort.
Thanks in advance for advice :-)
On the 12th of November AB cancelled my flight from AUH to TXL and it caused really annoying chain reaction.
I was in C and was informed about cancellation by staff in EY lounge, not by AB ground personel so I don't know the exact reason of cancellation. However, I heard conversation of other passengers who were informed by this personel that members of AB crew on this flight exceeded working time limits and were not allowed to fly further.
I was rebooked to EY flight to ROM (approx. 6 hours later) and then AB to TXL, where I arrived at 4.30 pm. My original time of arrival to TXL was 10 hours earlier, at approx. 6.30 am. What's worse, I had another flight from TXL to HEL at noon, which of course I was not able to catch because of AUH-TXL cancellation. In consequence, I lost also my last flight from HEL to GDN, where I was supposed to be at 5.30 pm on the 12th of November. TXL-HEL-GDN was on one ticket issued by AY and it was separate from AUH-TXL flight.
In result, I was forced to go to Gdansk by bus and I arrived there at 5.30 am on the 13th of November, so 12 hours later than originally planned.
And this is not the end. AB lost my luggage, so I traveled from TXL to ZOB station (where I waited for 4 hours for my bus) and further to Gdansk by bus without any winter clothes, only in trousers and shirt, in temperature below 0!
Now, to the point. Right after I came back home I sent a complaint to AB and described all these details. Today I received an answer and I just don't know what to say... The only thing they say is how sorry they are and that they hope that I'll still be flying with them. Not even one word about any kind of compensation!
Their explanation is as follows:
"According to our flight documentation the flight could not be operated as scheduled due to exceptional circumstances.
We kindly ask for your understanding that we are not liable for possible consequential costs in such cases"
Of course, I'll send them a reply but I have no doubts that their attitude will bring this case to court. And this is, what I'd like to ask you about. Do you know, from your own experience or from any other source, German lawyer who deals with such cases and is worth of recommendation? I'm determined to go as far as I can to get compensation which I'm entitled to. In this case we're talking about considerable amount of money (EUR 600 on basis of EC 261 + my damages caused by cancellation of flight), so I find it worth of effort.
Thanks in advance for advice :-)
Nov 22, 2016, 10:57 am
#42
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: BHX
Programs: BA GGL CCR GfL, SQ Gold, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond, Marriott Plat, Cafe Nero Loyalty Card (7 Stamps)
Posts: 7,330
Well, it's my turn to complain about AB and to ask for your advice.
On the 12th of November AB cancelled my flight from AUH to TXL and it caused really annoying chain reaction.
I was in C and was informed about cancellation by staff in EY lounge, not by AB ground personel so I don't know the exact reason of cancellation. However, I heard conversation of other passengers who were informed by this personel that members of AB crew on this flight exceeded working time limits and were not allowed to fly further.
I was rebooked to EY flight to ROM (approx. 6 hours later) and then AB to TXL, where I arrived at 4.30 pm. My original time of arrival to TXL was 10 hours earlier, at approx. 6.30 am. What's worse, I had another flight from TXL to HEL at noon, which of course I was not able to catch because of AUH-TXL cancellation. In consequence, I lost also my last flight from HEL to GDN, where I was supposed to be at 5.30 pm on the 12th of November. TXL-HEL-GDN was on one ticket issued by AY and it was separate from AUH-TXL flight.
In result, I was forced to go to Gdansk by bus and I arrived there at 5.30 am on the 13th of November, so 12 hours later than originally planned.
And this is not the end. AB lost my luggage, so I traveled from TXL to ZOB station (where I waited for 4 hours for my bus) and further to Gdansk by bus without any winter clothes, only in trousers and shirt, in temperature below 0!
Now, to the point. Right after I came back home I sent a complaint to AB and described all these details. Today I received an answer and I just don't know what to say... The only thing they say is how sorry they are and that they hope that I'll still be flying with them. Not even one word about any kind of compensation!
Their explanation is as follows:
"According to our flight documentation the flight could not be operated as scheduled due to exceptional circumstances.
We kindly ask for your understanding that we are not liable for possible consequential costs in such cases"
Of course, I'll send them a reply but I have no doubts that their attitude will bring this case to court. And this is, what I'd like to ask you about. Do you know, from your own experience or from any other source, German lawyer who deals with such cases and is worth of recommendation? I'm determined to go as far as I can to get compensation which I'm entitled to. In this case we're talking about considerable amount of money (EUR 600 on basis of EC 261 + my damages caused by cancellation of flight), so I find it worth of effort.
Thanks in advance for advice :-)
On the 12th of November AB cancelled my flight from AUH to TXL and it caused really annoying chain reaction.
I was in C and was informed about cancellation by staff in EY lounge, not by AB ground personel so I don't know the exact reason of cancellation. However, I heard conversation of other passengers who were informed by this personel that members of AB crew on this flight exceeded working time limits and were not allowed to fly further.
I was rebooked to EY flight to ROM (approx. 6 hours later) and then AB to TXL, where I arrived at 4.30 pm. My original time of arrival to TXL was 10 hours earlier, at approx. 6.30 am. What's worse, I had another flight from TXL to HEL at noon, which of course I was not able to catch because of AUH-TXL cancellation. In consequence, I lost also my last flight from HEL to GDN, where I was supposed to be at 5.30 pm on the 12th of November. TXL-HEL-GDN was on one ticket issued by AY and it was separate from AUH-TXL flight.
In result, I was forced to go to Gdansk by bus and I arrived there at 5.30 am on the 13th of November, so 12 hours later than originally planned.
And this is not the end. AB lost my luggage, so I traveled from TXL to ZOB station (where I waited for 4 hours for my bus) and further to Gdansk by bus without any winter clothes, only in trousers and shirt, in temperature below 0!
Now, to the point. Right after I came back home I sent a complaint to AB and described all these details. Today I received an answer and I just don't know what to say... The only thing they say is how sorry they are and that they hope that I'll still be flying with them. Not even one word about any kind of compensation!
Their explanation is as follows:
"According to our flight documentation the flight could not be operated as scheduled due to exceptional circumstances.
We kindly ask for your understanding that we are not liable for possible consequential costs in such cases"
Of course, I'll send them a reply but I have no doubts that their attitude will bring this case to court. And this is, what I'd like to ask you about. Do you know, from your own experience or from any other source, German lawyer who deals with such cases and is worth of recommendation? I'm determined to go as far as I can to get compensation which I'm entitled to. In this case we're talking about considerable amount of money (EUR 600 on basis of EC 261 + my damages caused by cancellation of flight), so I find it worth of effort.
Thanks in advance for advice :-)
As for your baggage, how long did it take to get it back to you? Honestly you should have gone to a shop and purchased winter clothes and billed AB for them as part of their lost luggage service. I doubt you'll get any compensation for anything you didn't actually buy.
Nov 22, 2016, 11:56 am
#43
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Gdynia, Poland
Posts: 631
Thanks :-)
Yes, I'm aware that getting any money for AY flight won't be easy. However, if during possible court proceedings it'll be proved that cancellation of AB flight from AUH to TXL was result of bad organization of work in AB, I should be also entitled to compensation for this lost flight. Fortunately, it wasn't expensive (a little over EUR 100), so I will survive if I don't get it, but nevertheless I'll try
As regards my luggage, it arrived home 3 days after my arrival to TXL.
You're right. Buying something would be good idea. However, it was late Saturday afternoon and there're no shops close to TXL, so it wouldn't be that easy. Additionally, I didn't think completely rationally at this time. I started my trip on the 10th of November in Sydney, then I had 20 hours layover in AUH (without hotel, only visiting the city) and then the cancellation and the rest of story which I told earlier. After so many hours on planes (fortunately I slept quite well for 7-8 hours on SYD-AUH leg), airports and in AUH, I was exhausted and didn't think about shopping
Anyway, fortunately I survived and didn't get cold.
Yes, I'm aware that getting any money for AY flight won't be easy. However, if during possible court proceedings it'll be proved that cancellation of AB flight from AUH to TXL was result of bad organization of work in AB, I should be also entitled to compensation for this lost flight. Fortunately, it wasn't expensive (a little over EUR 100), so I will survive if I don't get it, but nevertheless I'll try
As regards my luggage, it arrived home 3 days after my arrival to TXL.
You're right. Buying something would be good idea. However, it was late Saturday afternoon and there're no shops close to TXL, so it wouldn't be that easy. Additionally, I didn't think completely rationally at this time. I started my trip on the 10th of November in Sydney, then I had 20 hours layover in AUH (without hotel, only visiting the city) and then the cancellation and the rest of story which I told earlier. After so many hours on planes (fortunately I slept quite well for 7-8 hours on SYD-AUH leg), airports and in AUH, I was exhausted and didn't think about shopping
Anyway, fortunately I survived and didn't get cold.
Nov 26, 2016, 2:29 am
#44
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: switching frequently between US and Germany
Programs: DL GM / HH DIAMOND / IHG PlatAmb / AB Silv
Posts: 37
It took 7 months for me to finally get the money - after setting a court date Air Berlin finally decided to pay the EU261s 600€ instead.