May 9, 2019, 3:08 pm
Last edit by: Goldorak
FLYING BLUE ULTIMATE
Main facts
Ultimate is the top status in FB. It may be added to Club 2000 – Skipper status.
While other FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).
To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main
Since 03/2023, a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.
Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR (lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here).
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.
Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :
AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C
KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.
Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrades on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY app.
Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.
Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.
Please complete/edit this list as needed.
AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Reserved area in the Schengen lounge (need to ask staff at long entrance). Pre-boarding sometimes granted at the gate.
Paris CDG
Paris ORY
EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report
Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.
Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report
France (non-hubs)
- AJA: no special treatment to reportMain facts
Ultimate is the top status in FB. It may be added to Club 2000 – Skipper status.
While other FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).
To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main
Since 03/2023, a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.
Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR (lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here).
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.
Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :
AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C
KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.
Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrades on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY app.
Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.
Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.
Please complete/edit this list as needed.
AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Reserved area in the Schengen lounge (need to ask staff at long entrance). Pre-boarding sometimes granted at the gate.
Paris CDG
- CDG 2E:
- Departure : Escort from check-in to immigration in the morning (super fast track). Reserved space at K/L/M lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding
- Arrival : access to dedicated lane at passport control, all the way to the left, follow the "ULTIMATE" sign.
- Departure : There is a special Ultimate check-in counter in the SkyP zone (on the left of terminal). Reserved room in the lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding. Escort is provided from the counter to security (skipping the line).
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
- Departure : Reserved space in the lounge
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
Paris ORY
- Departure : Reserved space at Schengen and non-Schengen lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge.
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report
Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.
Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report
France (non-hubs)
- BES: no special treatment to report
- BIQ: no special treatment to report
- BOD: pre-boarding from lounge to plane inconsistently proposed
- CDG: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
- LYS: Escort from lounge to plane when flying from B gates provided upon request . Preboarding with escort to the plane consistently provided.
- MPL: pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed (AF agent comes to the contract lounge to meet the Ultimate guest)
- MRS: no special treatment to report
- NCE: Reserved area in Infinity lounge (inconsistently provided : seems to be provided only when lounge crowded). Pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed.
- NTE: no special treatment to report
- ORY: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
- PUF: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- RNS: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- TLS: Escort from check in to lounge inconsistently provided. Pre-boarding consistently provided
Germany
- BER: no special treatment to report
- DUS: no special treatment to report
- FRA: no special treatment to report
- HAM: no special treatment to report
- HAJ: No special treatment to report.
- MUC: Reserved area in the lounge, escort from lounge to plane with pre-boarding proposed.
- STR: reserved area in the lounge, pre-boarding
Greece
- ATH: no special treatment to report
- HER: no special treatment to report
- JTR: no special treatment to report
Hungary
- BUD: escort through security from check-in to lounge proposed
Ireland
- DUB: no special treatment to report
Italy
- BLQ: escort from check-in to lounge, and through security to plane.
- BRI: no special treatment to report
- CTA: no special treatment to report
- FCO: no special treatment to report
- FLR: no special treatment to report
- LIN: no special treatment to report
- MXP: pre-boarding granted by request
- VCE: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane (not always consistently proposed)
- NAP: no special treatment to report
Netherlands
- AMS: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
Norway
- OSL: no special treatment to report
- TRF: no special treatment to report
- KRS: no special treatment to report
- SVG: no special treatment to report
Poland
- WAW: no special treatment to report
- KRK: no special treatment to report
- GDN: no special treatment to report
Portugal
- LIS: pre-boarding proposed upon request
Russia
- SVO: no special treatment to report
- LED: no special treatment to report
Spain
- AGP: no special treatment to report
- BCN: no special treatment to report
- MAD: no special treatment to report
- PMI: no special treatment to report
- SVQ: no special treatment to report
- TFS: no special treatment to report
- VLC: no special treatment to report
Sweden
- ARN: no special treatment to report
- GOT: no special treatment to report
Switzerland
- GVA: pre-boarding upon request. Reserved area in the lounge
- ZRH: no special treatment
United Kingdom
- ABZ: no special treatment to report
- EDI: no special treatment to report
- LHR: no special treatment to report
NORTH AMERICA
Canada
- YUL: Escort from check-in to lounge upon request. Reserved area in lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane
- YYZ: escort on arrival through immigration, consistently offered. / Escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to airplane
- YQB: escort from check-in to lounge proposed
- YVR: no special treatment to report
USA
- ATL: no special treatment to report (in connection)
- BOS: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding, all consistently provided mostly spontaneously, sometimes upon request. A separate room in the AF lounge is also proposed.
- DTW: no special treatment to report (starting from DTW or in connection)
- IAD: escort through security from check-in to lounge upon request, but inconsistently provided. Reserved area at the lounge.
- IAH: no special treatment to report
- JFK (AF only / terminal 1) : reserved table in the dining area of the lounge (upstairs),
- JFK (KL only / terminal 4) : no special treatments to report.
- LAX: no special treatment to report
- ORD: On arrival, escort through immigration (not consistently provided). On departure, escort through security to lounge and from lounge to plane (pre-boarding)
- MSP: no special treatment to report, except one case of special DL Elite VIP treatment with expedited immigration and Porsche transfer to/from lounge (not a regular benefit to expect)
- SEA: pre-boarding with escort to plane
- SFO: reserved area in lounge
Mexico
- MEX (Terminal 1): escort through security to lounge with access to dedicated space. Ride from lounge to gate. Sometimes escort on arrival
CENTRAL & SOUTH AMERICA
- BOG: no special treatment to report
- LIM: escort to lounge, provided spontaneously
- GIG: Pre-boarding upon request.
- GRU: escort in case of short connection upon request, inconsistently provided; as of 02/2024 pre-boarding offered at check-in and provided by gate-staff (inconsistently provided).
- SCL: as of 03/2024 escort to lounge offered at departure check-in, pick-up from lounge and pre-boarding done
- EZE: escort to lounge with special crew lane for immigration provided spontaneously
ASIA / PACIFIC
- BKK: escort through security from check-in to lounge, upon request but inconsistently proposed. In connection : escort in case of short connection (better to request it before departure).
- BLR: escort from lounge to gate, pre-boarding provided
- BOM : escort from plane to immigration, and from checkin to the lounge
- DEL: as of 01/2024 escort upon arrival; proactive pre-departure call to arrange terminal entry via VIP entrance and escort to gate for pre-boarding (if lounge used, offered to pick up for pre-boarding)
- HKG: no special treatment to report.
- HND: Arrival : new 09/2023 = escort through immigration. Departure : escort from check-in desk to private (crew) security, proposed spontaneously
- KIX: Arrival : escort through immigration, wait at baggage claim. Departure : escort from check-in desk to lounge All proposed spontaneously
- SIN: no special treatment to report
CARIBBEAN & INDIAN OCEAN
- CUR: no special treatment to report, there is no (sky)priority lane for security or immigration, but escort/short track is available for 100 $.
- HAV: at departure, escort from check in counters until security checks. Pre-boarding offered. No escort at arrival. No reserved space in Lounge.
- FDF: No reserved space in Lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate.
- MRU: escort on arrival through immigration. Unknown for departures (no data point)
- PTP: Reserved table in lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge with escort from lounge to plane.
- RUN: Pre-boarding proposed at check-in and in the lounge, with escort from lounge to plane. Reserved seats in lounge
- SXM: Escort for incoming transit pax (from/to AF flight) through passport controls and security, pre-boarding pro-actively offered for AF departure
MIDDLE EAST
- AUH : no special treatment to report
- BEY: no special treatment to report
- DXB: escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to plane, all upon request, consistently provided. Access to the Ahlan lounge (normally reserved for P pax) instead of Skyteam lounge.
- JED: no special treatment to report
- RUH: no special treatment to report
- IST: no special treatment to report
AFRICA
- AGA: escort from check in to lounge and from lounge to aircraft, provided spontaneously
- CAI: no special treatment to report
- CMN: escort on arrival through immigration (not always consistently provided)
- CPT: escort from counter to lounge, provided spontaneously
- JNB: escort from counter to lounge (no fast track at immigration), provided spontaneously
- LOS: no special treatment to report
- RAK: escort on arrival, upon request (not provided on departure)
- RBA: on departure : escort to lounge and to plane, provided spontaneously.
- TUN: escort on arrival through immigration provided. Escort from check-in to lounge provided
- ZNZ: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate Status
May 2, 2017, 1:43 pm
#421
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
If you can, make that MUC and ZRH. At FRA, it's never as bad as CDG 2E, but for certain travel patterns (i.e. CDG->Brazil, Argentina) the distances involve a lot of walking. Not so if you travel CDG-North America. All in the same concourse. Also, more buses in FRA, although CDG flights almost always get a jetway.
Still, MUC is more pleasant.
And other people on this forum may have other recommendations (MAD? CPH? VIE has a somewhat stupid layout but no CDG-like wait lines, and you can even use AF metal to connect to CDG if you really prefer that to OS, but that involves longer walks. IST? )
Still, MUC is more pleasant.
And other people on this forum may have other recommendations (MAD? CPH? VIE has a somewhat stupid layout but no CDG-like wait lines, and you can even use AF metal to connect to CDG if you really prefer that to OS, but that involves longer walks. IST? )
May 2, 2017, 2:29 pm
#422
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SJJ/AMS
Posts: 4,647
I would personally not be particularly willing to tweak my travel patterns, bearing in mind the huge offer out of CDG and the overall decent product from the hub carrier. Moreover, Ultimate by Flying Blue is a brand new product and there's no doubt that it will take some time to congruously roll-out in terms of services made available to its customers. Going back to potential alternatives, CPH is in my opinion one of the best airports for connections (from/to anywhere basically, given the penny-plain terminal layout and the added bonus of no security in between whilst transferring to/from a non-Schengen service), then obviously status can play a major part in FRA (FCT, ad-hoc transfer and so on, otherwise pain in the backside with remote stands/bus, long walks, security etc.) whereas MUC, as stated above, is an extremely efficient airport regardless.
G
G
Last edited by AlicorporateUK; May 2, 2017 at 2:36 pm
May 2, 2017, 3:18 pm
#423
Join Date: May 2011
Location: OSL / PAR / BIA
Programs: FB Platinum
Posts: 307
My favourite connection airport is HEL, but given the somewhat limited network compared to other EU hubs i don't get to use it that often... OSL is also (finally) getting better at connections with the INTL-DOM connection route that is being put (slowly) into service in the secure zone (INTL-INTL connections already being somewhat painless).
The sheer strength of CDG is its network across all alliances but if ADP and border police can't solve the issues at immigration it will hurt CDG as a whole, not just AF/ST. I find 2C to be just as bad as 2E when larger queues do form.
As i was entering the 2F2 lounge the other day the lounge staff at the entrance was talking about incoming ULTIs to the lounge and preparing the reserved space, so from a standard plat POV i do get the impression that there is ground staff willing to put in the effort but from reading this thread AF will really need to work on hard benefits and consistency in service/soft benefits in order to make this a truly desirable status. I don't fly enough to be in a position to get this status (and i wouldn't be surprised if my many XK-coded legs do not count towards qualification) , but if i were in a position to qualify, i would rather spread my travel across alliances rather than chase Ultimate in its current format.
The sheer strength of CDG is its network across all alliances but if ADP and border police can't solve the issues at immigration it will hurt CDG as a whole, not just AF/ST. I find 2C to be just as bad as 2E when larger queues do form.
As i was entering the 2F2 lounge the other day the lounge staff at the entrance was talking about incoming ULTIs to the lounge and preparing the reserved space, so from a standard plat POV i do get the impression that there is ground staff willing to put in the effort but from reading this thread AF will really need to work on hard benefits and consistency in service/soft benefits in order to make this a truly desirable status. I don't fly enough to be in a position to get this status (and i wouldn't be surprised if my many XK-coded legs do not count towards qualification) , but if i were in a position to qualify, i would rather spread my travel across alliances rather than chase Ultimate in its current format.
May 3, 2017, 12:17 am
#424
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: KBL
Programs: FB Gold - M&S Gold
Posts: 279
I forgot to report this morning in my report of the day : I have been to the arrival lounge. I was very nicely welcomed as an Ultimate member. While I was taking my shower, the attendant reserved me a table in the lounge and prepared me some drinks and food. I shared with him (and with FA on-board) the 2E situation. They all said that they have tons of reports about that from pax. They all said that they worry about this situation and the potential consequences on bookings. And they are right, this is a real threat.
PS: What time was it when you took those pics?
May 3, 2017, 2:10 am
#425
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Paris, France
Programs: Flying Blue (LTPE) All (Gold)
Posts: 1,519
PAF (police immigration control) is the key, uncontrolled by AF in CDG.
I recently waited 20', although accompanied by an AF hostess ( as traveling in First). We were waiting beside the line dedicated to Sky Priority, as several people in wheelchairs, very near the police places that were all empty!
May 3, 2017, 6:02 am
#426
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Boston, MA, USA
Programs: FB LTPE, BAEC GGL, EK Blue, SK Gold, Marriott Amb+LTT, IHG Diamond Amb, Accorhotels Silver
Posts: 1,960
And there is a strong load balancing issue in the staffing pattern of police officers.
During the afternoon, there is close to zero wait at immigration...
During P2, there should not be any closed Police Booth, either at departure upstairs or arrival downstairs. And I would be very surprised if ADP had absolutely no voice in the staffing pattern of these booth. There is actually a permanent police officer in the CC hub of Air France to load balance.
2 solutions :
- If ADP/AF have a voice in the staffing pattern of police officers, and they can solve the problem without changing the flight schedules just by changing officers schedules
- If they can't change officers schedule, they will need to streamline hub-and-spoke slots to decrease the number of passengers in P2 and increase them in P1/P3 for example
May 3, 2017, 12:57 pm
#427
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,928
+1
PAF (police immigration control) is the key, uncontrolled by AF in CDG.
I recently waited 20', although accompanied by an AF hostess ( as traveling in First). We were waiting beside the line dedicated to Sky Priority, as several people in wheelchairs, very near the police places that were all empty!
PAF (police immigration control) is the key, uncontrolled by AF in CDG.
I recently waited 20', although accompanied by an AF hostess ( as traveling in First). We were waiting beside the line dedicated to Sky Priority, as several people in wheelchairs, very near the police places that were all empty!
Well, yes and no. Not controlled by AF, but very much coordinated by ADP.
And there is a strong load balancing issue in the staffing pattern of police officers.
During the afternoon, there is close to zero wait at immigration...
During P2, there should not be any closed Police Booth, either at departure upstairs or arrival downstairs. And I would be very surprised if ADP had absolutely no voice in the staffing pattern of these booth. There is actually a permanent police officer in the CC hub of Air France to load balance.
2 solutions :
And there is a strong load balancing issue in the staffing pattern of police officers.
During the afternoon, there is close to zero wait at immigration...
During P2, there should not be any closed Police Booth, either at departure upstairs or arrival downstairs. And I would be very surprised if ADP had absolutely no voice in the staffing pattern of these booth. There is actually a permanent police officer in the CC hub of Air France to load balance.
2 solutions :
- If ADP/AF have a voice in the staffing pattern of police officers, and they can solve the problem without changing the flight schedules just by changing officers schedules
- If they can't change officers schedule, they will need to streamline hub-and-spoke slots to decrease the number of passengers in P2 and increase them in P1/P3 for example
- have control on their flight schedule
- have negociation power with ADP to organise better this mess. How on earth ADP can justify that the PARAFES gates have been removed in 2E arrivals to install new better gates, but 2 months later there's still not a single new e-gate in view
. Install 10-15 new e-gates and most of the problem is solved. - have control or strong influence on how the SkyP lane is handled. At 2E arrivals, the priority lane is on the left as you know, and there is a constant flow in an unofficial lane on the left of the SkyP lane, of pax with infants/children, wheelchairs, UM with AF staff, crews (yes, very surprising as they are not supposed to go through the regular arrival circuit, but yesterday I saw several), pax who are cheating, P pax, etc. And the problem with this unofficial lane is that they use the single police booth usually dedicated to the SkyP lane. And the flow is quasi-constant, so it means that the priority lane is moving at the speed of a snail.
- have entire decision power on measures they can put in place for their top-tier members (discussion of this thread).
May 4, 2017, 2:41 am
#429
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Programs: FB Plat for life, FB PC, M&M FT, Hertz President (+ many low tier cards)
Posts: 2,777
- have control or strong influence on how the SkyP lane is handled. At 2E arrivals, the priority lane is on the left as you know, and there is a constant flow in an unofficial lane on the left of the SkyP lane, of pax with infants/children, wheelchairs, UM with AF staff, crews (yes, very surprising as they are not supposed to go through the regular arrival circuit, but yesterday I saw several), pax who are cheating, P pax, etc. And the problem with this unofficial lane is that they use the single police booth usually dedicated to the SkyP lane. And the flow is quasi-constant, so it means that the priority lane is moving at the speed of a snail.
When you arrive at the zoo just step back and observe. You will see continuous movement, almost a flow in European passport lane. The SP lanes sometimes comes to a grinding halt which can last more than 5 minutes!
I have no experience with the non European passport lane, but it does look very slow to me.
May 4, 2017, 3:25 am
#430
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Asia
Programs: FB Platinum
Posts: 186
can attest to the fact that regular lane is easily faster or as fast as SP lanes during peak traffic periods. best to just judge the difference in queue length vs number of counters allocated. e.g. if the regular queue is ~3x as long as SP queue, but has 4 counters compared to SP's 1.
May 5, 2017, 3:05 am
#431
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 179
2E to 2F
Regular line faster than SP, maybe not always. I think they are more or less the same. The other day SP was about 30 minutes and the regular line probably closer to 40 minutes.
Here is what I think they are doing. The airlines provide an estimate of the number of PAX transiting there, then ADP plans on how many positions are to be staffed, with the target of an average waiting time of say 30 minutes.
I believe (to be corrected) that SkyPriority gives access to dedicated counters, I do not think it is specified anywhere that the transit time has to be / typically is any different compared to the non-SP lines.
Here is what I think they are doing. The airlines provide an estimate of the number of PAX transiting there, then ADP plans on how many positions are to be staffed, with the target of an average waiting time of say 30 minutes.
I believe (to be corrected) that SkyPriority gives access to dedicated counters, I do not think it is specified anywhere that the transit time has to be / typically is any different compared to the non-SP lines.
can attest to the fact that regular lane is easily faster or as fast as SP lanes during peak traffic periods. best to just judge the difference in queue length vs number of counters allocated. e.g. if the regular queue is ~3x as long as SP queue, but has 4 counters compared to SP's 1.
May 5, 2017, 6:34 am
#432
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Programs: FB Plat for life, FB PC, M&M FT, Hertz President (+ many low tier cards)
Posts: 2,777
Having said that, I would expect SP to be faster in any case, except when there are no lines. After all, P stands for Priority. And I would expect even more priority for an Ultimate, which is currently not the case.
Last edited by Zembla; May 5, 2017 at 6:42 am
May 5, 2017, 11:58 am
#433
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 179
May 5, 2017, 4:47 pm
#434
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,928
Two comments/info tonight
- I was looking at the Ultimate booklet today and re-saw what I link below. Translation for our non-French speaking friends here :
"Spend your time by saving time : the airport and its long waiting lines...to avoid them, your travel assistant in liaison with our ground staff will help you to have a smooth way through the airport. And when your family is travelling with you, they have the same benefit as you.
Completely misleading, isn't it ?
- I called the PA tonight around 11 pm and was on hold for a bit more than 10 min before the call was answered. During the discussion, I was told that the Ultimate PA end their service at 9 pm. After its the Platinum line who is taking the calls. Not that they were bad (the agents on the French Plat line are usually very good), but wasn't the PA line supposed/announced to be 24/24 ?
- I was looking at the Ultimate booklet today and re-saw what I link below. Translation for our non-French speaking friends here :
"Spend your time by saving time : the airport and its long waiting lines...to avoid them, your travel assistant in liaison with our ground staff will help you to have a smooth way through the airport. And when your family is travelling with you, they have the same benefit as you.
Completely misleading, isn't it ?
- I called the PA tonight around 11 pm and was on hold for a bit more than 10 min before the call was answered. During the discussion, I was told that the Ultimate PA end their service at 9 pm. After its the Platinum line who is taking the calls. Not that they were bad (the agents on the French Plat line are usually very good), but wasn't the PA line supposed/announced to be 24/24 ?
May 5, 2017, 4:57 pm
#435
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 367
In the NL the ULTI line has the same 8.00-18.00 hours - then as well it goes to Plat line;
I had a nice argument about that some time back with my PA as this is likely not to work as most of my evening flights are just at or after 18.00 - but the hope was that Plat line would increase their knowledge, etc in a short period of time; so far they were able to help with irregularities and for "general ULTI stuff" I use the office hours or mail.
I had a nice argument about that some time back with my PA as this is likely not to work as most of my evening flights are just at or after 18.00 - but the hope was that Plat line would increase their knowledge, etc in a short period of time; so far they were able to help with irregularities and for "general ULTI stuff" I use the office hours or mail.