strikerbird

I think we are missing the point of the thread. The point is benefits to the platinum members. One I really want to see is that platinum member can maybe get 100% of the earnings of the route no matter what class we pay! 25% (Min 189 points) is a complete joke in economy. I have been platinum for almost half a decade and have only 140 000 points! I can not use it for anything almost. In addition, maybe letting us give away free Silver or gold cards? Also maybe let us change tickets (aka. date and flight time) free of charge? Maybe even blocking the seat next to us when the flight isn't full!!! All of these things Flying Blue can just maybe maybe think in trying to implement. It won't cost them a cent extra even... And I am not even going to bother mentioning the free upgrades to business class vouches, because that is re-donkulous in the eyes of the Flying Blue department.

I am just quite fed up with the lack of benefits I have with being Platinum Member with Flying Blue compared to Gold with EuroBonus,

Sincerely,

SB

orbitmic

Only first year at 3000 though so will only turn GGL when I complete my second year with the same 'score'! To be honest, even before I got it, I already think that the Gold upgrade for 2 that I received when I reached 2500 TPs a few weeks ago is a great benefit in its own right and one FB could easily extend to high flying Platinums and LTPEs. [for non BAEC members, BA also offers further awards of 2 gold upgrades for 1 after 3500, 4500, 5500, etc Tier Points and GGL also get jokers which allow to transform revenue seats into award seats for up to 5 people twice a year, and also the right to 'gift' one gold and two silver cards, and finally free award changes and cancellations]

orbitmic

The problem with the benefit that you propose is that it is great for you if you fly a lot of discount economy fares, but would be useless to the people who achieved Platinum never flying discounted Y. In particular, the great paradox of what you suggest is that it would most benefit those people who get Platinum flying 60 cheap Y segments while it may be far less good to the many people who qualify in what I consider to be a much harder way, ie by miles. I think this would send very much the wrong message as a Platinum benefit and would believe that some other alternatives (e.g. Platinum upgrades or jokers or two F lounge invitations each year, etc) which would benefit most if not all platinum members regardless of flying patterns would be far more sensible.

I also think it is not to 'miss the point' to suggest that "high flying Platinums" (e.g. people with >150k miles) and Lifetime Platinums may also deserve some sort of additional differentiation.

johan rebel

I would not begrudge anyone such a benefit, but its usefulness will depend on your travel pattern.

I know, it is hard to find a benefit that is equally appreciated by all. You, for example, are pleased with the BAEC Gold upgrade for 2, whereas I would not know what to do with it. I guess coming up with something that benefits as many as possible is the challenge here, although in this instance the far greater challenge is to convince FB to do something positive for us. I suspect that woud require a change of mindset that's quite beyond them.

Johan

I'll happily confess to being one of those, with one qualification: I hardly fly SkyTeam anymore. Now why would that be?

Johan

brunos

Until AF gets a decent business class I will not fly with them anymore. But once they do, I would need some serious benefits to elite+ to attract me back. They don't exist currently. Maybe that is because there are so many Plats and they should create a superPlat level. The carrot of LPTE will not work for me.

Aviatrix

I think you've just proved the point that others were making earlier on - i.e., that Platinum for Life members should NOT get additional benefits just because they're Platinum for Life.

I agree that long-term loyalty should be rewarded (and I think we should have Gold for Life too!), but I don't think those with lifetime membership should get benefits over and above others. Not having to requalify every year should be enough of a reward.

johan rebel

Yeah, but the point is that now that FB has been completely gutted, having LTPE is no longer much of an incentive to keep flying KLAF. As there is no need to rack up the miles anymore, it just might be in their interest to think of some other way to engender loyalty.

Let's see here, what incentives does LTPE offer me to stay loyal to SkyTeam?

- a tiny chance of an upgrade on shorthaul flights. Woohoo!

- access to pretty dire and overcrowded lounges. Well, I've got Privium at Schiphol anyway, and when I fly SK on my CPH-AMS commute I can use the latter's far superior CPH Gold lounge (yes, they have a separate lounge for top-tier elites).

- priority boarding. Both OneWorld and Star offer me that too.

- a 100% award miles bonus. Well, at 187 miles per flight that's going to get me to a distant and exotic destination real soon.

- Economy "Comfort". Oh boy, oh boy, can't wait until my next flight! I'm fidgeting already. For some reason the middle seat on my SK flights is almost always vacant (maybe because I'm *G?), and with usually much lower load factors the whole experience is generally more pleasant anyway. I had an overbooked and far from pleasant SK flight last week, but that was a first.

I'm afraid it all doesn't amount to very much. For my commute I just go for the most convenient flight, regardless of whether it is SK or KL. For longhaul I've of course long since fled to the competition, but that is above all a seat issue.

Johan

RigpigMalta

I also think its time for another level over Plat with some serious benefits attached. Maybe at 150,000 level miles and no segment flyers allowed (or at least 120 segments)

Gajan

Though LTPE may not be of much value for you, for certain people the benefit of always having elite status with their (main) airline may be beneficial for them.

Though it may not have as many frills as other airlines, it may still give you certain benefits which you can value accordingly.
For me personally I would be quite happy with priority check-in, extra luggage allowance, lounge access (depending on the quality of the lounge) and EC when travelling on KLM for the rest of my life, but that it my personal opinion.

I think the main point here is if you would still fly a lot (i.e. enough to requalify) after the 10 year period or if your flying would decrease for any reason, therefore losing your previously earned frequent flier status (e.g. retirement), therefore is the benefit of having lifetime status a gift or not? Assuming that everyone's flying pattern will decrease at a certain point in time, I would say from the moment you cannot qualify for Elite status the benefit of not having to requalify kicks in.

I suppose there is another underlying question here: to what extent is the frequent flier programme determining in which airline you fly - as stated by you above?
Is schedule (direct vs. one stop), price and/or product not more important for the non-frequent flier miles lovers?

Therefore the effect of the frequent flier programme may be less significant then we think.

orbitmic

Let me target that second part first. I really think that we need to move away from that question and that it is a red herring that airlines without FFPs like U2 (or airlines with bad FFPs) have been using. I have never seen anyone suggest that FFP is the only thing that matters, but human beings are complex creatures, and in effect, the FFPs (both that of airline X and that of its competitors) will account for X% of the flight choice decision. Sure, nobody in their right mind will purchase MRS-LHR-ORY on BA at €400 and over 4 hours, while they could have MRS-ORY at €50 on AF direct and in 1hr15. However, when it comes to flying CDG-LAX return direct in J on AF at €5000, or via LHR and with flatbeds for €2500 on BA which will be 14 hours instead of 12, or when it comes to flying LYS-CDG-HKG on AF or LYS-IST-HKG on TK, etc, there will each time be a number of conflicting factors which will all play their small roles, and FFP benefits will be one of them. If AF > BA in this FFP category, it will more than occasionally tip the balance in favour of AF for many frequent flyers even if they are not FFP obsessed, and if on the other hand BA > AF on that front, then it will more than occasionally result in the loss of an important customer on the flight. "Important" because human beings are also creatures of habits, and if airline X manages to bring them to their planes and they like it, habits can develop and survive. So I think that the universally admitted issue that other factors matter is really no reason to underestimate the fact that FFPs do have an influence as well and is a potential part of revenue maximising strategies for airlines.

I agree with your first part - that LTPE is a benefit in its own right, and also, that it is however not really one for as long as you travel enough to qualify anyway. But I think that even that, while true, is reversing the logic of the FFP, which is not about 'fairness' but about incentivising people to fly. LTPE is very useful for the airline because it may push people to stay faithful for 10 years at the peak of their travelling life. Getting rid of it would thus have a cost in that some of those high flying people would 'drop out' sooner despite the incentive. Conversely, someone like johan rebel is actually a cheat LTPE to maintain because precisely if he does not travel much on ST airlines then what is the cost for FB? A couple of lounge entries in the year? That's nothing compared to what getting his intense flying for 10 years has been. By contrast, encouraging him or the rest of us who still fly ST a lot would be a way of creating further incentives to extend that period of intense flying intensity, so IMHO, telling LTPE that they will earn additional 'super benefits' for every 20,000 or 25,000 level miles that they fly each year (so at 20, 40, 60, 80, 100, etc or at 25, 50, 75, 100, etc) would be clever, as it would be to extend those to the non-LTPE who reach very high mileage levels (e.g. 140k level miles and again 160, 180, 200, etc. or 150k and then again 175, 200, 225, etc). In my view, this would not be 'fair' it would be 'clever'.

Finally, I do fully realise that there are probably too many platinums now for some 'super benefits' for all. I think it means that either Gold benefits should be ringfenced and Platinum benefits extended but Platinum made harder to get, or Gold stays as it is with risk of further devaluation, Platinum as it is with risks of devaluation, and a super Platinum level created. If Platinum is changed, in terms of prioritisation, I find segment qualification a useful addition and something to keep, but "pure" segment qualification a bit anomalous, especially now that not all segments are equal since AF Mini =/= cheap KL, so that, for example, someone in LBA who has to fly KL is advantaged compared to someone in SOF who has to fly AF. To me, a possible solution would be to move from a "miles or segments" logic to a "miles or miles+segments" for Platinum. What I mean is that this would not change anything for silver and gold and would still allow a priority platinum qualification for those who fly a lot of segments but still with a minimum level mileage (which typically implies a minimum spend), so something like: France: silver: 30k or 15 segments, gold: 60k or 30 segments, platinum: 90k or 60k+60 segments. Rest of the world: silver: 25k or 15 segments, gold: 40k or 30 segments, platinum: 70k or 40k+60 segments. I think it would be less crude than making segment qualification unachievable but ends the anomaly of people qualifiying for platinum with 60 segments and a mere 12,000 level miles. The alternative, as mentioned above, would be a 'super platinum' level which would likely be achievable by miles only.

KLflyerRalph

I think there are too many Platinums now to increase benefits across the board. To reward the most important FFers they either need to come up with a new level or they have to have certain mileage thresholds within Plat like BA does (I vote for the latter).

johan rebel

They already have Ivory, Silver, Gold and Platinum, of which the first two are pretty useless to begin with. Then you get Skipper and Club2000 as well. That's plenty enough as far as I'm concerned.

Johan

orbitmic

Overall, I generally agree - I think that Ivory, silver, gold, platinum is the right number and the jump from ivory-silver (access to priority services) and silver-gold (access to lounges) makes sense. It is really the lack of differentiation between gold and platinum which is anomalous. That's why I was suggesting that if they introduce a 'super platinum' it will almost necessarily mean devaluating gold and platinum which I don't think would be that good.

johan rebel

Indeed.

Just goes to show how differently we value benefits and amenities. I can't remember when I last checked in at a desk, I fly with hand luggage only, and only value that decreasing minority of lounges that are at least halfway decent.

Many years ago, there was an interview in KL's staff magazine Wolkenridder with the then head of Flying Dutchman. One of the issues addressed was what they could do for loyal frequent flyers who upon retirement dropped from RoyalWing to BlueWing. The solution they devised and introduced was unlimited carry-over of status points earned above the threshold every year. Given that Flying Dutchman in its original incarnation was a very generous program, real frequent flyers could amass enough points to retain RoyalWing status for many years after retirement. The express purpose and intention was to reward former frequent flyers for their past loyalty by extending them privileges for a varying number of years. LTPE of course also achieves that, but is much broader in scope.

I fully realize that I'm probably the odd man out in every conceivable way, or at least not a typical frequent flyer. Most importantly, I have the freedom of choice. Secondly, I don't really care about award miles. If I want to go somewhere, I buy a ticket. So it is simply a matter of how I can get where I want to go and when I want to go in the greatest comfort at the price I am willing to pay.

Johan

Goldorak

I fully agree with you guys.