AF asks crews to fly 100 hrs more per year
Oct 6, 2015, 1:45 am
#106
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I was surprised to hear this at first, because here in France most people that I have talked to say "poor AF, attacked by those awful union extremists". And on BFM they showed union leaders trying to justify the actions of yesterday saying that it was nothing compared to 2900 people getting fired. Leaving out that 2900 people won't get fired as many or most of the posts will come through voluntary departure or retirement. The talking heads I saw on TV were backing AF rather than the unions. In France you don't gain positive public opinion through violence. Rather you lose public support and it switches to the other side. Everyone feels sorry for those two shirtless guys.
But after thinking about it I realize that some will see it differently around the world.
But after thinking about it I realize that some will see it differently around the world.
When you have the choice to fly on AF or another airline (say HKG-NCE or CDG-FRA), do you think that these images will tend to make you want to fly AF to show your support to AF management who got physically attacked or to fly another airline?
Last edited by brunos; Oct 6, 2015 at 4:37 am
Oct 6, 2015, 1:46 am
#107
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My point was a serious one though, that all we have for the 'unions rule it all in the south' is a "on dit" that gets repeated but seems contradicted by AF's ability to pass mass hr cuts in those bases whilst even much smaller changes affecting Paris lead to far more hostile reaction such as last year's strike that led to the airline cancelling its proposed change.
While I agree with your other point on the images discussed, my feeling where I am is that the damage is even more to 'France' as a whole than AF in particular.
Oct 6, 2015, 2:47 am
#108
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I think that anyone who flies a lot would not make their choice over what happened yesterday. The LH strikes over the last couple of years had a real impact on passengers. This event had no impact on passengers and yes I would absolutely choose AF today. However if there is a severe strike impact coming up in the next few weeks I will of course choose the airline that is less likely to be on strike during my trip. Maybe KLM.
Last edited by stimpy; Oct 6, 2015 at 2:53 am
Oct 6, 2015, 3:21 am
#109
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FD1971, sorry, purely from a passenger's point of view, I am not at all convinced by your statement about "jobs which should have been outsourced".
To be honest, it is probably more than just losing a few jobs (jobs which should have been outsourced or cut years ago...)
AF is one of the few remaining bastions of the old French approach (insane benefits resulting from the good old "socialistic" days) so it is not surprising that people try to avoid the first step into the real world of 21st century aviation.
AF is one of the few remaining bastions of the old French approach (insane benefits resulting from the good old "socialistic" days) so it is not surprising that people try to avoid the first step into the real world of 21st century aviation.
Oct 6, 2015, 3:56 am
#110
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They outsourced a lot already in the past, names like Cygnific or Swissport come to mind quickly, but even with those cuts, the cost structure is not competitive enough...
Oct 6, 2015, 4:07 am
#111
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There are many evolution theories in Aviation Management, a lot of people believe that the incumbent carrier will always keep a certain market share due to many regulations which will keep the competition at bay, so I do not really see the end of AF or KL.
Again, it is not about AF, it is more about all the stakeholders and inhowfar they have to live with the consequences of constant financial losses.
A divesture of KL would result in a lot of income (to reduce debt) and selling a major stake to Etihad would result in less severe restructuring, which might be benefitial for more stakeholder in comparison to classic major restructuring schemes, which will be painful.
Oct 6, 2015, 4:37 am
#112
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In fact, my personal guess is that sooner or later, some airlines will even start sub-contracting ground operations at hub too. AZ famously did that when they had a second hub at MXP but I do not believe any airline does it at its main hub as yet.
Oct 6, 2015, 4:44 am
#113
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I'm always a colourful speaker
My point was a serious one though, that all we have for the 'unions rule it all in the south' is a "on dit" that gets repeated but seems contradicted by AF's ability to pass mass hr cuts in those bases whilst even much smaller changes affecting Paris lead to far more hostile reaction such as last year's strike that led to the airline cancelling its proposed change.
While I agree with your other point on the images discussed, my feeling where I am is that the damage is even more to 'France' as a whole than AF in particular.
My point was a serious one though, that all we have for the 'unions rule it all in the south' is a "on dit" that gets repeated but seems contradicted by AF's ability to pass mass hr cuts in those bases whilst even much smaller changes affecting Paris lead to far more hostile reaction such as last year's strike that led to the airline cancelling its proposed change.
While I agree with your other point on the images discussed, my feeling where I am is that the damage is even more to 'France' as a whole than AF in particular.
Oct 6, 2015, 4:59 am
#114
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As far as I'm concerned, I'm rarely checking luggage and using OLCI, so contacts are limited (basically gate & lounge personal = 5-10s interactions), therefore I tend to agree to FD1971's point.
Oct 6, 2015, 5:23 am
#115
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Hasn't the need to interact with ground staff been reduced quite a bit over the past years?
As far as I'm concerned, I'm rarely checking luggage and using OLCI, so contacts are limited (basically gate & lounge personal = 5-10s interactions), therefore I tend to agree to FD1971's point.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm rarely checking luggage and using OLCI, so contacts are limited (basically gate & lounge personal = 5-10s interactions), therefore I tend to agree to FD1971's point.
Oct 6, 2015, 6:20 am
#117
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Judging from the media in France today, the unions made a grave tactical error. AF now has the upper hand in this one if it goes to a significant strike.
By the way, the PM visited the AF HQ today and has called for arrests of the people responsible for the violence. There's to be a judicial investigation.
By the way, the PM visited the AF HQ today and has called for arrests of the people responsible for the violence. There's to be a judicial investigation.
Oct 6, 2015, 6:44 am
#118
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I knew that France was a socialist paradise but this is truly amazing.
Read in Le Figaro this morning:
So basically assaulting the Chief HR does not get you fired automatically, and the supreme court HAD to rule that kidnapping your CEO is sufficient to get you fired. This country is crazy.
no comment...
Given the political orientation of our judges, I doubt there will be any consequence.
Read in Le Figaro this morning:
Ils risquent des sanctions disciplinaires - avertissement, blâme, mise à pied - pouvant aller jusqu'au licenciement. Toutefois, l'exercice du droit de grève ne peut justifier la rupture du contrat de travail, sauf s'il y a reconnaissance d'une faute lourde. Pour licencier un salarié lors d'un mouvement de grève, il faut donc réussir à prouver l'intention de nuire. La séquestration d'un DRH a été reconnue comme faute lourde par un arrêt de la Cour de Cassation. L'employeur est maître de ses sanctions, il décide s'il doit, ou non, y en avoir.
Les juges vont regarder les circonstances particulières, savoir s'il y a eu des provocations avant le début des violences, et apprécier si cela justifie, ou non, les événements.
Given the political orientation of our judges, I doubt there will be any consequence.
Oct 6, 2015, 7:45 am
#119
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The plan also announced that AF is aiming to move towards the subcontracting of ground operations in both airports, suggesting already then that it was only a question of time before own ground operations were curtailed altogether.
Oct 6, 2015, 8:16 am
#120
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The AF plan of 2014 resulted in 40% of ground staff jobs being cut at both NCE and MRS. It was entirely separate from the Bases de Province issues as far as I know.
The plan also announced that AF is aiming to move towards the subcontracting of ground operations in both airports, suggesting already then that it was only a question of time before own ground operations were curtailed altogether.
The plan also announced that AF is aiming to move towards the subcontracting of ground operations in both airports, suggesting already then that it was only a question of time before own ground operations were curtailed altogether.