irishguy28

HasteFlier

Bad news for AF...
I guess then it would depend on what kind of route FR plans to open from CDG - in some cases, as some argued in another thread, it might be less of an issue than U2. In any case, I do guess that many Paris-based people avoid FR specifically because they use BVA (it used to be my case) - so, having them open routes at CDG would make them more competitive indeed!

brunos

Indeed, CDG rather than BVA (with poor public transport) would make a significant difference. But costs would be higher for FR.

Zembla

Of all the LCC, Ryanair would be my last resort!
We al have been claiming that AF delivers LCC service for normal prices, but let's be honest, there is a HUGE gap of quality and service here.

AlicorporateUK

True, however their lean structure would still allow them to bring some misery & pain to AF in terms of competition.

I flew them a few times, mainly EMA-WMI/WRO (mostly as a last resort in terms of time i.e. when a last minute BHX-AMS/CDG/MUC/FRA-WAW/WRO would have costed me a whopping 500 GBP as opposed to 60 GBP from MOL&Co) and the whole experience wasn't that bad or that different compared to AF.

G

irishguy28

When did you last fly Ryanair?

I had my first FR flight in many years last December...I even went all the way to Brussels to avail of their cheaper prices.

To be honest, they are no worse than AF, KL, or most of the "flag carriers". They could teach many airlines a thing or two about boarding a plane quickly, though!

AlicorporateUK

^

G

orbitmic

I'm glad for our Parisian friends who will undoubtedly get benefits from this new competition.

I am one of the people who have insisted that FR was less of a threat to BA, AF, and LH because of their use of less convenient airports. I am sticking with my logic and think that FR from CDG will be much more of threat than it has been to date if it chooses the right routes. Bear in mind that they fly from a number of other "major" airports with business traffic potential such as DUB, FCO, NCE, MRS, etc. There is a chance that they will open a number of routes that could "eat" part of AF's core European traffic.

Conversely, if they open clever leisure routes, they may very well present a danger to AF's TO plans. I have long thought that one of the main issues with AF is that they always make their plans assuming that the competition will not move. Let's hope for them that I am wrong and that they had seen it coming...

Mokshu

Moving from BVA to CDG for Ryanair will probably mean they have to triple the operating costs. I'm not sure if they are able to do so or if it's just some bargaining talks to put pressure on BVA.

brunos

Really? As a lowly Ivory I am reflecting on my AF experiences between ORY and NCE and am not sure where AF is beating any airline. NEO seats: awful. Newspapers: have become rare and not the one I want. Food and drink: are you serious? With the money I save I can buy food onboard. Boarding: a mess and very slow. On time performance: poor.

I am not saying that FR is good, but AF sets the bar very low on domestic flights. As Mokshu points out, it could be negotiating tactics for FR. Their costs will be higher if they develop a base at CDG and they might have higher prices than from BVA, but they will easily beat AF on price and access a large market. Whether AF will let them open a base in CDG is another question.

olivedel

I have been hearing for a long time now that FR wants to operate from CDG or ORY. Are they here yet? Not at all.

FR has been trying to reposition their strategy as a Business-compatible LCC to be closer than U2 : They subscribed to IATA, they implemented Business fares that are fully flexible, etc.
I am not sure they want to compete with AF in particular, but they will certainly compete with U2 that has serious operations at CDG and ORY now, and maybe TO out of ORY.

orbitmic

I would be surprised if they fully switched, but this is not incompatible with them starting flights from CDG whilst keeping others at BVA.

They already do that in many places: large base at STN but some flights (mostly more business-oriented Irish flights) from LGW, large base at CIA but some flights from FCO (mostly some key domestic routes and a few business-friendly routes), large base at GRO but some flights from BCN (once again, more business oriented).

I would expect that this may be exactly what they are hoping to do with BVA/CDG rather than a negotiation tactic.

Zembla

To be honest, that was in 2007...

NickB

I agree that this looks like the most credible scenario. Curious as to how they plan on securing slots at CDG if they do go down that route though.

JohnnyRockets

Now will they still advertise BVA as "Paris"

I doubt CDG would be cost effective enough to have a competitive price or at least giving a much lower fare than other operators. I would still like to see some FR U2 competition to drive down fares.

FR won't get my business out of Paris until this.