Air France, Paris to Vancouver
Apr 5, 2015, 11:02 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 11
Air France, Paris to Vancouver
Thought I'd share the rather unsatisfactory experience that befell my wife on her journey to visit our daughter in Vancouver on Friday last.
She actually booked Dublin-Paris CDG-Vancouver on a through ticket. There was a connection time of 65 minutes between scheduled arrival at CDG Terminal 2E and departure to Vancouver from the same terminal. The Dublin-CDG flight pushed back a minute`early at 0634, but due to heavy early traffic at Dublin, did not take off till 0645 and landed at CDG at 0950, 20 minutes`late.
There was nobody from Air France meeting the flight to fasttrack passengers to soon departing flights. In fact, the aircraft was parked so far away, it took a full 20 minutes to get to the terminal building.
When my wife presented herself at the departure gate at 1025, she was informed the flight was closed, despite the flights departure time of 1035. She protested at the lack of assistance up to that point and was met with a typical Gallic shrug of the shoulders and the promise they would 'try' and get her away via Montreal at 1420. Eventually, she was given her new boarding cards which showed a four hour stopover in Montreal (despite there being a flight to Vancouver 2 hours earlier), a phone card to allow her ring home, and the news that Air France did not give out meal vouchers in such circumstances.
After eventually landing in Montreal, my wife had to use her wits to work out that she would need to claim her bags for Customs and reload them. Air France did not consider it important enough to inform her of this by the way.
After a 5 hour Air Canada flight, she eventually landed in Vancouver at 2210, instead of 1150 as per original itinerary, a delay of`10 hours and 20 minutes.
Luckily, (or maybe not) she is flying KLM home via Amsterdam, and we look forward to filling in the Delayed Flight Compensation forms, which Air France will o doubt dispute/refuse to pay.
There are no mitigating circumstances here. The airline were guilty of poor communication, poor organisation in getting delayed passengers to the right gate on time and a general lack of care. Its pretty obvious they resold my wifes seat to Vancouver when it became known the feeder flight was running late. Now its going to cost them approximately what my wife paid for the flight in compensation.
That is no way to run a business. Get a gripp, Air France
She actually booked Dublin-Paris CDG-Vancouver on a through ticket. There was a connection time of 65 minutes between scheduled arrival at CDG Terminal 2E and departure to Vancouver from the same terminal. The Dublin-CDG flight pushed back a minute`early at 0634, but due to heavy early traffic at Dublin, did not take off till 0645 and landed at CDG at 0950, 20 minutes`late.
There was nobody from Air France meeting the flight to fasttrack passengers to soon departing flights. In fact, the aircraft was parked so far away, it took a full 20 minutes to get to the terminal building.
When my wife presented herself at the departure gate at 1025, she was informed the flight was closed, despite the flights departure time of 1035. She protested at the lack of assistance up to that point and was met with a typical Gallic shrug of the shoulders and the promise they would 'try' and get her away via Montreal at 1420. Eventually, she was given her new boarding cards which showed a four hour stopover in Montreal (despite there being a flight to Vancouver 2 hours earlier), a phone card to allow her ring home, and the news that Air France did not give out meal vouchers in such circumstances.
After eventually landing in Montreal, my wife had to use her wits to work out that she would need to claim her bags for Customs and reload them. Air France did not consider it important enough to inform her of this by the way.
After a 5 hour Air Canada flight, she eventually landed in Vancouver at 2210, instead of 1150 as per original itinerary, a delay of`10 hours and 20 minutes.
Luckily, (or maybe not) she is flying KLM home via Amsterdam, and we look forward to filling in the Delayed Flight Compensation forms, which Air France will o doubt dispute/refuse to pay.
There are no mitigating circumstances here. The airline were guilty of poor communication, poor organisation in getting delayed passengers to the right gate on time and a general lack of care. Its pretty obvious they resold my wifes seat to Vancouver when it became known the feeder flight was running late. Now its going to cost them approximately what my wife paid for the flight in compensation.
That is no way to run a business. Get a gripp, Air France
Apr 5, 2015, 11:37 am
#4
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Why was the DUB-CDG delayed?
Your wife's inbound was late and she arrived at her connecting gate late. She was rebooked. She arrived late. If EC 261/2004 delay/cancellation compensation applies (will depend on the reason for the delay into CDG), she is entitled to that. For a 4-hour wait over lunchtime, a duty of care would have suggested a smallish voucher, but that is not really of great moment.
The rest of this is about the need to be proactive. Tight connecting? Tell the crew. Don't know how arrivals formalities work in Canada? Ask the crew? Don't like the new routing? Say so.
Presuming that anybody else will look out for your interests is not and has not been the case for some time, e.g. meeting the inbound, telling your wife how to handle Canadian entry formalities.
Your wife's inbound was late and she arrived at her connecting gate late. She was rebooked. She arrived late. If EC 261/2004 delay/cancellation compensation applies (will depend on the reason for the delay into CDG), she is entitled to that. For a 4-hour wait over lunchtime, a duty of care would have suggested a smallish voucher, but that is not really of great moment.
The rest of this is about the need to be proactive. Tight connecting? Tell the crew. Don't know how arrivals formalities work in Canada? Ask the crew? Don't like the new routing? Say so.
Presuming that anybody else will look out for your interests is not and has not been the case for some time, e.g. meeting the inbound, telling your wife how to handle Canadian entry formalities.
Apr 5, 2015, 11:59 am
#5
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: YTZ, YYZ, AMS
Programs: Platinum Zirconium in Life, aeroplan, FB, Avios, IHG
Posts: 603
I think this is where knowing a little about who flies where comes in handy. I know that the KLM flight from AMS to YVR leaves at 1pm. I wonder if that would have been an option to insist upon the staff at CDG.
Apr 5, 2015, 12:03 pm
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 11
Why was the DUB-CDG delayed?
Your wife's inbound was late and she arrived at her connecting gate late. She was rebooked. She arrived late. If EC 261/2004 delay/cancellation compensation applies (will depend on the reason for the delay into CDG), she is entitled to that. For a 4-hour wait over lunchtime, a duty of care would have suggested a smallish voucher, but that is not really of great moment.
The rest of this is about the need to be proactive. Tight connecting? Tell the crew. Don't know how arrivals formalities work in Canada? Ask the crew? Don't like the new routing? Say so.
Presuming that anybody else will look out for your interests is not and has not been the case for some time, e.g. meeting the inbound, telling your wife how to handle Canadian entry formalities.
Your wife's inbound was late and she arrived at her connecting gate late. She was rebooked. She arrived late. If EC 261/2004 delay/cancellation compensation applies (will depend on the reason for the delay into CDG), she is entitled to that. For a 4-hour wait over lunchtime, a duty of care would have suggested a smallish voucher, but that is not really of great moment.
The rest of this is about the need to be proactive. Tight connecting? Tell the crew. Don't know how arrivals formalities work in Canada? Ask the crew? Don't like the new routing? Say so.
Presuming that anybody else will look out for your interests is not and has not been the case for some time, e.g. meeting the inbound, telling your wife how to handle Canadian entry formalities.
She knew about Customs at first point of entry. What if she had not ?. One more bag doing the Carousel Dance instead`of going where it should.
I dont expect full service from a Budget airline. I do expect it from the likes of`Air France. EC 261/2004
Apr 5, 2015, 12:12 pm
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 11
It would have been impossible to get to Amsterdam in time for the 1305 flight to Vancouver. Going via USA was never an option as my wifes ESTA is not current, (she didnt think she would need one). That left via Montreal and a 10 hour late`arrival.
Apr 5, 2015, 12:22 pm
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 11
Why was the DUB-CDG delayed?
Your wife's inbound was late and she arrived at her connecting gate late. She was rebooked. She arrived late. If EC 261/2004 delay/cancellation compensation applies (will depend on the reason for the delay into CDG), she is entitled to that. For a 4-hour wait over lunchtime, a duty of care would have suggested a smallish voucher, but that is not really of great moment.
The rest of this is about the need to be proactive. Tight connecting? Tell the crew. Don't know how arrivals formalities work in Canada? Ask the crew? Don't like the new routing? Say so.
Presuming that anybody else will look out for your interests is not and has not been the case for some time, e.g. meeting the inbound, telling your wife how to handle Canadian entry formalities.
Your wife's inbound was late and she arrived at her connecting gate late. She was rebooked. She arrived late. If EC 261/2004 delay/cancellation compensation applies (will depend on the reason for the delay into CDG), she is entitled to that. For a 4-hour wait over lunchtime, a duty of care would have suggested a smallish voucher, but that is not really of great moment.
The rest of this is about the need to be proactive. Tight connecting? Tell the crew. Don't know how arrivals formalities work in Canada? Ask the crew? Don't like the new routing? Say so.
Presuming that anybody else will look out for your interests is not and has not been the case for some time, e.g. meeting the inbound, telling your wife how to handle Canadian entry formalities.
As regards the baggage situation, the airline cannot assume all passengers know the rules, Takes 3 seconds to inform the passenger what to do at first entry point. Otherwise the result is yet another unclaimed bag at Montreal.
The late`arrival at CDG was apparently due to head winds en route, but the remote parking stand (20 mins by bus away) did not help.
Apr 5, 2015, 2:15 pm
#10
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
OP - The deadline for boarding an overseas flight on AF is at T-40. Your wife was not even at the terminal until T-40 and an escort would not have helped her make that deadline.
As you note, the YUL connection was all that was left to her and that is what your wife got.
As you note, the YUL connection was all that was left to her and that is what your wife got.
Apr 5, 2015, 2:32 pm
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 11
As the Vancouver flight only commenced on March 29th, maybe they haven't got things fine tuned yet, connection wise.
They were happy to allow the ticket sale and had ample time to inform us of any connection problems. They did not
Last edited by Homeland53; Apr 5, 2015 at 2:33 pm Reason: error
Apr 5, 2015, 2:44 pm
#12
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: AC 50K, NZ Gold
Posts: 222
Lufthansa can do it in Frankfurt when Vancouver feeders are delayed. They have driver with the passenger(s) name(s) and the boarder/custom officer in the car on duty. Simple and effective! Lets don't exercise false sense of understanding for negligent practices! Please and THANK YOU!!!
Apr 5, 2015, 3:01 pm
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 11
Homeland is 100% right and I strongly disagree with some senior members of this forum that feel differently. Air France could meet his wife right at the arrival gate and transfer the lady directly to Vancouver departure gate. How? By car Watsons, by car! Lufthansa can do it in Frankfurt when Vancouver feeders are delayed. They have driver with the passenger(s) name(s) and the boarder/custom officer in the car on duty. Simple and effective! Lets don't exercise false sense of understanding for negligent practices! Please and THANK YOU!!!
Lufthansa can do it in Frankfurt when Vancouver feeders are delayed. They have driver with the passenger(s) name(s) and the boarder/custom officer in the car on duty. Simple and effective! Lets don't exercise false sense of understanding for negligent practices! Please and THANK YOU!!!Both my wife and I are well travelled and I am an avid 'Airline Watcher'. In all our travels, this is only the second time we have used Air France. Maybe the experiences on our favourite airline, Etihad, lulled us into thinking all full service airlines did the little things well, like getting us to our connecting fight. Obviously this is not the case. Not checking the manifest for tight connecting time passengers is pure negligence in my opinion. Not saying every one will make their flight, but if the crew at least show some interest in getting you there,it sticks in the memory bank.
Its probably just as well I was not on this particular trip, as I have a short fuse when it comes to dealing with airline jobsworths.
Apr 5, 2015, 3:21 pm
#14
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atherton, CA
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP; Owner, Green Bay Packers
Posts: 21,690
Thanks for that !!
Both my wife and I are well travelled and I am an avid 'Airline Watcher'. In all our travels, this is only the second time we have used Air France. Maybe the experiences on our favourite airline, Etihad, lulled us into thinking all full service airlines did the little things well, like getting us to our connecting fight. Obviously this is not the case. Not checking the manifest for tight connecting time passengers is pure negligence in my opinion. Not saying every one will make their flight, but if the crew at least show some interest in getting you there,it sticks in the memory bank.
Its probably just as well I was not on this particular trip, as I have a short fuse when it comes to dealing with airline jobsworths.
Both my wife and I are well travelled and I am an avid 'Airline Watcher'. In all our travels, this is only the second time we have used Air France. Maybe the experiences on our favourite airline, Etihad, lulled us into thinking all full service airlines did the little things well, like getting us to our connecting fight. Obviously this is not the case. Not checking the manifest for tight connecting time passengers is pure negligence in my opinion. Not saying every one will make their flight, but if the crew at least show some interest in getting you there,it sticks in the memory bank.
Its probably just as well I was not on this particular trip, as I have a short fuse when it comes to dealing with airline jobsworths.
Not checking tickets for tight international connecting times could be described as negligence.
It is simply a fact of life that planes are often somewhat late. When you have not given yourself some extra time, you will get stuck in situations like this. It would be wise to consider this life experience which prompts you to look into booking longer connection times, particularly when dealing with airports notorious for their Gallic efficiency. It's frustrating, but will happen again if you travel often enough and don't pay attention to potentially too short connections.
Apr 5, 2015, 3:30 pm
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 11
Not checking tickets for tight international connecting times could be described as negligence.
It is simply a fact of life that planes are often somewhat late. When you have not given yourself some extra time, you will get stuck in situations like this. It would be wise to consider this life experience which prompts you to look into booking longer connection times, particularly when dealing with airports notorious for their Gallic efficiency. It's frustrating, but will happen again if you travel often enough and don't pay attention to potentially too short connections.
It is simply a fact of life that planes are often somewhat late. When you have not given yourself some extra time, you will get stuck in situations like this. It would be wise to consider this life experience which prompts you to look into booking longer connection times, particularly when dealing with airports notorious for their Gallic efficiency. It's frustrating, but will happen again if you travel often enough and don't pay attention to potentially too short connections.
On the way back, its KLM to Amsterdam, then nearly 3 hours before Aer Lingus to Dublin so hopefully, no connection problems there.