orbitmic

A planned delay on a flight departing 6.35am in summer would be most unlikely. On DUB-LHR-SEA, they most probably won't. AF/WX don't fly DUB-LHR. They fly DUB-LCY but the time it would take to go from LHR to LCY would make this a most inconvenient choice, and even if there was a planned delay that made it predictable that the OP would miss his CDG-SEA flight, WX are unlikely to book the OP on DUB-LHR on EI/BA while there are plenty of Skyteam itineraries available. They would probably expect the OP to be sorted at CDG or would reroute via AMS (earlier departure time on KL flight operated by EI).

Most unlikely 1) first just a reminder that compensation is only due if the passenger is delayed by more than 4 hours due to an event which does not constitute extraordinary circumstances. Once again, considering the timing of the first flight (6.35am) the most likely delay case would be that plane 1 goes on time but the tight transfer time means that the OP misses the connection. This would not be eligible for 261/2004 compensation at all as the reason would be considered to be that the OP effectively did not manage to make his transfer fast enough. 2) another reminder that compensation is due by the operating airline. Not the airline which sells the ticket or of the flight code (DL). In other words, in the most unlikely case that there is a significant delay of the first flight which leads to an overall delay of other 4 hours and is not due to extraordinary circumstances, if the OP asked DL for compensation he would simply be wasting his time and barking at the wrong tree.

Diabo

DL8678 has an average delay of 16 minutes. That's a pretty good score for a 2h flight, but on a 1h connection those 16 minutes will almost certainly make you arrive in SEA more than 4 hours late.

The Grand Chamber of the European Court has ruled that "the compensation is not conditional upon there having been a delay at departure." Even if the first flight is on time, the only thing that matters is the time of arrival at SEA.

Whether CityJet or Delta is to blame, arrival at SEA after 16:04 means that one of them will have to pay as long as the OP doesn't waste his time in the shops at CDG.

relangford

YMMV, but I have always had problems at CDG. You might make it, but .... I would never do a one hour connection there.

orbitmic

IMHO, I think that there is a mistake in the internal logic of your argument. Nobody has suggested that if the plane left early and arrived significantly late no compensation would be due. For info that ruling primarily occurred when "clever" low cost carriers thought that they had found a caveat in the reg and that it would be a good idea in case of delay to leave the gate to consider the plane departed and then continue doing whatever they needed to do for the flight to be able to actually go.

However that both departure time and arrival time can be invoked for matters of compensation + that reg covers full itinerary and not individual legs does not in any way mean that compensation will be due if the passenger could have made the connection but did not. Otherwise, people would simply "strategically" miss boarding and go to destination with a €600 discount.

WX1579 has an ontime statistic of 85%, to which you can add 8% of small delays and as you say an average delay of 16 minutes with a standard deviation of 25.4 minutes (which means that this average delay is essentially only due to the 6% of outliers with "excessive" delays). This is very good overall (as you have probably seen flightstats makes this overall performance better than 95% of all other flights). As I mentioned, in all likelihood, if the passenger misses the flight, this will not be due to the flight leaving late (or arriving late at CDG) but to the connection time being tight and CDG not being an easy place to navigate if one is not familiar with it. What you seem to suggest is that in that context a judge will likely take the OP's side unless WX prove that the OP wasted time by "looking at shops". I disagree I think that a judge will start from the assumption that when there is a legal connection and no noted delay of any significant magnitude, a judge will likely assume that the connection would have been doable and it will be for the passenger to provide evidence that it was not (e.g. bus from plane was delayed, etc).

So in a nutshell:

- WX flight arrives 40 minutes late (for a reason not due to extraordinary circumstances), you miss connection, arrive into SEA 5 or 6 hours late: no problem you will be entitled to compensation.

- WX flight arrives on time (which by IATA standards means within 15 minutes of scheduled time) and you still arrive at the gate after boarding has closed, you will have a hard time convincing the airline that they have a responsibility to compensate you as they will consider you had time to connect. They will refuse to compensate. The national enforcement authority will likely support them. You can then sue the airline but you will effectively need to demonstrate to a judge that the connection really was not doable even though the airline claimed that it was and that you simply did not go fast enough.

I'm not saying that you would never be able to make this case. Again, if you can demonstrate, for instance, that by the time the bus arrived at the terminal boarding was well under way etc. you will have a case. What I am saying is that suggesting to the OP that he should not worry because if he makes his connection great, if he misses it the airline will pay him €600 compensation anyway is misleading and could lead both to drawing the wrong conclusions and to acting in a counter-productive way.

As for the "time wasting" question, I was simply saying that if the passenger writes to DL they will be wasting their time. There is no "whether/or" in this case, the regulation strictly applies to the operating airline and there is no exception to this rule. If you suffer a delay due to WX on a flight that you booked under a DL code and you write to DL, you will simply be wasting your time as DL will ignore your letter and the one airline which you should ask for compensation will be unaware of your claim!

Diabo

If you miss a 60 min connection (especially if it involves a bus ride from a remote stand), it's up to the airline to explain why they expect passengers to make their connections in way less time than the airport itself calls "Minimum Connecting Time."

If you arrive at an M gate in 2E... CDG calling their L and M gates part of 2E is deceptive labeling.

orbitmic

MCT is always airline specific even though airports also provide MCTs for itineraries involving multiple airlines, which are always longer.

MCT for AF/Skyteam itineraries on 2E-2E is 60 minutes.

The reason why airport MCTs are always longer is because they must account for passengers needing to collect and recheck their luggage. The suggested increase is 30 minutes for regular passengers and 60 minutes for special need.

So basically, AF are doing what is standard here.

Goldorak

All bus arrivals at 2E are at concourse K ("main" 2E)

I don't see why. Most, to not say all, big airport terminals have different concourses. Not different from AMS, ATL, DTW (Mc Namarra), CVG, ORD (UA terminal), HKG, BKK, ICN, etc etc

olivedel

I agree this can sound tight, but really feasible. If it was not, they would not sell it.
I did intra-2F connections in less than 20 minutes and intra-2E connections in less than 30 minutes multiple times.
And there are plenty flights going westbound during the day so no issues to be rebooked if necessary via JFK, BOS, ORD, etc.

You are right, the issue in CDG 2E, I think, is the use of a letter in both the terminal name and the concourse name, the letter being different.
And the frequent "K L M gates" signage is confusing.

LondonElite

A friendly reminder to the OP to let us know how he gets on on Saturday. The suspense is beginning to kill me!

x86brandon

I will let you know. I was sad to be forced through Air France OLCI and then not seeing Sky Priority on the boarding pass. Ugh.

olivedel

Are you travelling on an award ticket? If so, it is a common issue. In any case, bring your card

x86brandon

Sadly, expensive paid tickets. Work decided to send me on a weeks notice.

orbitmic

If your card is correctly entered, you will be fine even if it is not showing as Skypriority on the card. This seems to be hit and miss for some reason! Enjoy your trip and fingers crossed.

olivedel

I am just puzzled that these bugs are still in place after almost 4 years...

orbitmic

completely agree...