canadiancow

Either DL and I are smarter than the market, or you and AC are smarter than the market.

Let me go look up DL's financials.

skybluesea

I never said I was smarter than the market, but you just did.

And one example does NOT make the market.

longtimeflyin

Comrade, do you not think that if there was any basis in your thought process that AC was malicious or whatnot in hiding certain terms in the fine print that lawyers would not have pried that wide open by now by way of a class action or whatnot?

Fiordland

What would be cool (but dependent on having a strong IT team to program it) is a system where it does a scan of the flight, if it looks there is going to be a problem at check-in the system says

"We can get you to your final destination ahead of time, to you want to switch?"

I know the airlines make money from change fees for people who this on their own. I think we have all been in the situation where you finish up a meeting early, get to the airport are a left with the choice, do I give the airline more money to change to an earlier flight or do I sit in their lounge drinking their beer .... decisions decisions decisions.

If there IT systems could recognize these problems ahead of time, they may be able to take action to correct them. I don't want to recommend IBM (Don't do the current system at AC? ), however they have this little thing called IBM Watson that try to sell to retailers to manage store inventory levels based on weather and consumer patters etc.

The people that do the current AC systems probably are not the correct people to do something like this.

Jagboi

And for those "high value" travellers who are going YYC-YYZ, who exactly are they going to rush away to? WS? Greyhound? The same WS who doesn't overbook? I'm really not seeing this as a problem since one major Canadian airline can eliminate IDB (for all practical purposes) I don't see why AC can't either. The only thing stopping AC is greed.

jc94

I've been asked if I want to standby or leave on an earlier flight at OLCI before. I don't believe there was an associated cost.

Fiordland

My experience has been it is because of an aircraft swap or it is YXE during the February school break. I don't think they have a good handle on some of the regional holidays and the impact it has on their model. They do well otherwise with avoiding the need to bump.

Fiordland

I don't think I have ever had it with OLCI. In Victoria and London Ontario with a real agent it happen to me a couple of times where they instinctively to move you to an earlier flight.

In the last couple of months I have tried to get on an earlier flight in Ottawa and the response from the agent has been it can only be done as far as Toronto but not on the connection to Vancouver without a change fee. My experience is Lufthansa is probably the most strict for wanting to charge change fees.

Jagboi

Not hard at all. You have a live auction at the gate.

Gate Agent: I'm offering $200 vouchers and a flight in 2 hours and I need 4 people.

GA: No takers?

GA: $300 vouchers and the 5 pm flight?

GA: No? (holds up $100 bills)

GA: $300 cash and the 5 pm flight?

(punter put his hand up)

GA: thank you sir, are you travelling alone?

(punter indicates his wife and son)

GA: Thank you sir! I need one more seat and I'm offering $300 cash, guaranteed on the 5 pm flight, and MLL access?

(crickets)

GA: any interest in $400 cash guaranteed on the 5 pm flight with MLL access?

(wierdo from the comic book convention put up hand)

GA: Sold to the duck in the silk hat at back, thank you sir!

10 min and you've got your VDB people and everyone is happy.

canadiancow

I've been asked for a credit card during OLCI before, so unless you went all the way through, don't assume it was free.

MSPeconomist

Folks keep mentioning the DL method. Here's how it actually works:

Many DL travelers here suspect that the ask at OLCI or when using an airport kiosk for the amount at which one would be willing to accept a VDB is just a big data collection project for DL. The general experience is that one is asked to tentatively volunteer this way for far far far more flights than are actually overbooked or oversold. Moreover, volunteering at this time doesn't do much as many/most GAs ignore this list and work from the volunteers that approach the GA at the podium. Also, a volunteer offer is not binding, nor should it be as one doesn't know when/how one would be rebooked. Almost anyone who understands the process would ask for much more money for a long delay, an overnight stay, or a new itinerary with many or tight connections, smaller or less comfortable aircraft, worse seats, less pleasant connecting airports, etc. not to mention the possibility of downgrades.

ADDED: Another trick of the DL system is to ignore that suggestion that you'll accept a VDB for about a hundred bucks and enter your own amount. IIRC the maximum that will be accepted by the computer for a domestic flight is $800, although GAs can go much higher than this. You can try trial and error starting from a high number, although IIRC if you once enter a number that's too high but not extremely high, delta.dumb (during OLCI) or the airport kiosk will tell you the maximum bid you can enter for your flight. Enter that amount and you're done, plus you haven't reassured DL that it can oversell flights for cheap.

yulred

Comrade, the practice itself is legal, so what would a class action law suit achieve?

I wouldn't characterize it as malicious. I doubt airlines are out to deliberately hurt IDBd folk. They're just utterly unconcerned about the consequences of their actions (ie - they don't give a flying F what happens to the IDB'd as long as they get what they want). Lacking basic decency? Sure. Unreasonable? Sure. Illegal? No.

They should just warn people up front and let the chips fall as they may.

jc94

Fair comment, I did not pursue this so there may indeed have been a cost. I honestly can't even recall the flight details, nor class either. It would be Flex or low PE or P though for sure. As in, not a fully flexible ticket.

canadiancow

Yeah, when I do it in full Y/J (or standby from I class), it's free.

But I've done paid SDCs before too.

On another note, I find United's app tends to waive the SDC fee if the flight is oversold (shocking).

If the flight is oversold, show a big "FREE CHANGES" button on restricted fares. Only offer flights with positive space.

If they implement that, I want a royalty.

acysb87

Charles Darwin visited FT in 2015, and his observation of Air Canada frequent flyer species later inspired his theory of evolution of the FF.