Does the perceived treatment of passengers affect the cleanliness of the cabin?
Feb 21, 2017, 12:32 pm
#16
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So make that 4 visits, now. The place is that good, even 2 cities over (or a toll bridge.)
Moreover, it's packed, and the line-ups at the concession stand are insane.
So is it better to have 200 seats 10% full, or 100 seats 90% full?
More to the original point, last evening I realized that there was essentially no talking during the movie, no phone rings, and no texting. With every movie I'm more convinced that the environment has a profound effect on the patrons.
Planes and passengers?
Moreover, it's packed, and the line-ups at the concession stand are insane.
So is it better to have 200 seats 10% full, or 100 seats 90% full?
More to the original point, last evening I realized that there was essentially no talking during the movie, no phone rings, and no texting. With every movie I'm more convinced that the environment has a profound effect on the patrons.
Planes and passengers?
I think two people at this theater had a cost of roughly $70 USD for two seats, two beers, and a popcorn. 160 degree lie flat seats. Very clean. Didn't help.
Feb 21, 2017, 4:26 pm
#17
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Given that we're pontificating on a topic loosely associated with air travel at best, but I do think you're onto something.
In my former home (Scottsdale) and my new home (Los Angeles) there is a luxury movie theatre chain called iPic, with seats similar to what you describe.
The entire facility is luxury. Wine bar in the lobby, gourmet Dean & DeLuca style snacks, menu service at your seat, etc.
I think the actual product itself, paired with being surrounded by others with higher standards may encourage people to clean up after themselves.
Rising tide floats all ships...
In my former home (Scottsdale) and my new home (Los Angeles) there is a luxury movie theatre chain called iPic, with seats similar to what you describe.
The entire facility is luxury. Wine bar in the lobby, gourmet Dean & DeLuca style snacks, menu service at your seat, etc.
I think the actual product itself, paired with being surrounded by others with higher standards may encourage people to clean up after themselves.
Rising tide floats all ships...
Feb 21, 2017, 4:54 pm
#18
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Given that we're pontificating on a topic loosely associated with air travel at best, but I do think you're onto something.
In my former home (Scottsdale) and my new home (Los Angeles) there is a luxury movie theatre chain called iPic, with seats similar to what you describe.
The entire facility is luxury. Wine bar in the lobby, gourmet Dean & DeLuca style snacks, menu service at your seat, etc.
I think the actual product itself, paired with being surrounded by others with higher standards may encourage people to clean up after themselves.
Rising tide floats all ships...
In my former home (Scottsdale) and my new home (Los Angeles) there is a luxury movie theatre chain called iPic, with seats similar to what you describe.
The entire facility is luxury. Wine bar in the lobby, gourmet Dean & DeLuca style snacks, menu service at your seat, etc.
I think the actual product itself, paired with being surrounded by others with higher standards may encourage people to clean up after themselves.
Rising tide floats all ships...
Feb 22, 2017, 1:02 pm
#19
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If we can segway a little here into something slightly more associated with air travel, but potentially not as associated with the class of cabin leading to a greater or less cleanliness... I recall reading, in numerous places, that most of the profit with flights is from J seats.
This is why a few airlines, or at least one (BA) has a JFK->LHR J only service where the entire plane is in J. I think it's a red-eye, basically replacing the old Concorde flights though ~2.5x as long in air time.
Why don't more airlines, maybe including AC do this? If most of the profit is in J, then would outfitting an entire 787 in J allow the prices for TATL to be dropped from say $1500 OW to $1000 which brings it into the sort of money I'd personally be more willing to pay (over avg. $750-800 in PY). I have no idea how many J seats one could fit into a 787 or what the price would need to be to return a profit.
Is the concern simply that they wouldn't ever fill the aircraft leading to mostly empty flights and no profit? I personally don't really care when I board on a long haul flight in J because my major issue of overhead space is never an issue. I could probably fit my checked luggage in the sort of widebodies employed. Especially without a weight limit.
This is why a few airlines, or at least one (BA) has a JFK->LHR J only service where the entire plane is in J. I think it's a red-eye, basically replacing the old Concorde flights though ~2.5x as long in air time.
Why don't more airlines, maybe including AC do this? If most of the profit is in J, then would outfitting an entire 787 in J allow the prices for TATL to be dropped from say $1500 OW to $1000 which brings it into the sort of money I'd personally be more willing to pay (over avg. $750-800 in PY). I have no idea how many J seats one could fit into a 787 or what the price would need to be to return a profit.
Is the concern simply that they wouldn't ever fill the aircraft leading to mostly empty flights and no profit? I personally don't really care when I board on a long haul flight in J because my major issue of overhead space is never an issue. I could probably fit my checked luggage in the sort of widebodies employed. Especially without a weight limit.
Feb 22, 2017, 1:33 pm
#20
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If we can segway a little here into something slightly more associated with air travel, but potentially not as associated with the class of cabin leading to a greater or less cleanliness... I recall reading, in numerous places, that most of the profit with flights is from J seats.
This is why a few airlines, or at least one (BA) has a JFK->LHR J only service where the entire plane is in J. I think it's a red-eye, basically replacing the old Concorde flights though ~2.5x as long in air time.
Why don't more airlines, maybe including AC do this? If most of the profit is in J, then would outfitting an entire 787 in J allow the prices for TATL to be dropped from say $1500 OW to $1000 which brings it into the sort of money I'd personally be more willing to pay (over avg. $750-800 in PY). I have no idea how many J seats one could fit into a 787 or what the price would need to be to return a profit.
Is the concern simply that they wouldn't ever fill the aircraft leading to mostly empty flights and no profit? I personally don't really care when I board on a long haul flight in J because my major issue of overhead space is never an issue. I could probably fit my checked luggage in the sort of widebodies employed. Especially without a weight limit.
This is why a few airlines, or at least one (BA) has a JFK->LHR J only service where the entire plane is in J. I think it's a red-eye, basically replacing the old Concorde flights though ~2.5x as long in air time.
Why don't more airlines, maybe including AC do this? If most of the profit is in J, then would outfitting an entire 787 in J allow the prices for TATL to be dropped from say $1500 OW to $1000 which brings it into the sort of money I'd personally be more willing to pay (over avg. $750-800 in PY). I have no idea how many J seats one could fit into a 787 or what the price would need to be to return a profit.
Is the concern simply that they wouldn't ever fill the aircraft leading to mostly empty flights and no profit? I personally don't really care when I board on a long haul flight in J because my major issue of overhead space is never an issue. I could probably fit my checked luggage in the sort of widebodies employed. Especially without a weight limit.
The current J seats and fares are profitable within the larger unit economics of a modern, wide-body airliner. But in order to offer 50 J on a 787-9, you still need 200 or more economy seats to fill out the plane. If you go to an all-J configuration with 100 seats but have to drop prices to the point that your revenue on the lower-yielding 50 J seats is not any more than 200Y they replaced, you haven't come out any further ahead. Since a modern AC J seat takes around 3.5-4x the space of a modern AC Y seat, why bother trying to sell $2000 R/T J TATLs when you could just sell $500 Y fares instead?
Look at the 787 configurations various operators have, AC has one of the smallest J cabins of any long-haul carrier. They obviously feel they can market cheap Y fares a lot more easily than J fares.
AC 787-9: 30J 21PY 247Y
United: 48J 204Y
ANA: 48J 21PY 146Y
Qantas: 42J 28PY 166Y
BA: 8F 42J 38PY 127Y
Last edited by eigenvector; Feb 22, 2017 at 1:38 pm
Feb 22, 2017, 6:02 pm
#21
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AC FAs refuse to clean the lavs. They are too important to do what FAs on other airlines do.
I have often walked into a J lav right after someone deposited a rotting chunk of innard causing me to immediately exit gasping for air. What can I do? Shout out hey mister, have you tried metamucil and more ruffage?
Feb 23, 2017, 6:38 am
#22
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In Europe and Asia, execs get F.
This is why AC did away with F so long ago.
If you fill J with bottom feeder upgrades, you are losing money.
But then again, the J prices AC charges are not warranted considering the level of service vs LH/NH/OZ/KE/LX and the state of the older planes.
Feb 23, 2017, 8:33 am
#23
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It is rather unfortunate that standards of passengers have dropped as they for the most part have today. We've had endless debates about what the "proper" attire inflight should be, particularly in front cabins. This might start a similar one on deportment and tidiness.
Yes, I've often found myself bemused by the horrid state of pods as I walk past them when exiting a flight. Blankets, pillows, newspapers, blankets, amenity kit cases and/or contents just trashed on the floor. On a blog the other day, the writer appeared surprised to find the duvet nicely folded on the seat that an FA had used for a mid-flight crew rest. I suppose it's just upbringing, but I always manage to fold up my duvet or blanket and replace it and the pillow in the overhead. Since I invariably goes through a dozen or more newspapers and magazines in the course of a long haul flight, these are always pulled together into a single stack for collection at the end of a flight (or during). And extra trash is put into the air sickness bag and left on my seat. These are all rather simple and civilized tasks that should not be beyond the abilities of even the most pampered traveler. But I dare say I've fallen into the minority. But such slovenliness does impact the flight crews and their initiative to keep a cabin in good order.
(We won't move this discussion into the lavatory...)
Yes, I've often found myself bemused by the horrid state of pods as I walk past them when exiting a flight. Blankets, pillows, newspapers, blankets, amenity kit cases and/or contents just trashed on the floor. On a blog the other day, the writer appeared surprised to find the duvet nicely folded on the seat that an FA had used for a mid-flight crew rest. I suppose it's just upbringing, but I always manage to fold up my duvet or blanket and replace it and the pillow in the overhead. Since I invariably goes through a dozen or more newspapers and magazines in the course of a long haul flight, these are always pulled together into a single stack for collection at the end of a flight (or during). And extra trash is put into the air sickness bag and left on my seat. These are all rather simple and civilized tasks that should not be beyond the abilities of even the most pampered traveler. But I dare say I've fallen into the minority. But such slovenliness does impact the flight crews and their initiative to keep a cabin in good order.
(We won't move this discussion into the lavatory...)
Feb 23, 2017, 11:37 am
#24
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I've never heard of any company paying for F, when J was available.
Exception: If F<J then most though not all companies will pay it.
It is rather unfortunate that standards of passengers have dropped as they for the most part have today. We've had endless debates about what the "proper" attire inflight should be, particularly in front cabins. This might start a similar one on deportment and tidiness.
I suppose it's just upbringing, but I always manage to fold up my duvet or blanket and replace it and the pillow in the overhead. Since I invariably goes through a dozen or more newspapers and magazines in the course of a long haul flight, these are always pulled together into a single stack for collection at the end of a flight (or during). And extra trash is put into the air sickness bag and left on my seat. These are all rather simple and civilized tasks that should not be beyond the abilities of even the most pampered traveler. But I dare say I've fallen into the minority. But such slovenliness does impact the flight crews and their initiative to keep a cabin in good order.
I suppose it's just upbringing, but I always manage to fold up my duvet or blanket and replace it and the pillow in the overhead. Since I invariably goes through a dozen or more newspapers and magazines in the course of a long haul flight, these are always pulled together into a single stack for collection at the end of a flight (or during). And extra trash is put into the air sickness bag and left on my seat. These are all rather simple and civilized tasks that should not be beyond the abilities of even the most pampered traveler. But I dare say I've fallen into the minority. But such slovenliness does impact the flight crews and their initiative to keep a cabin in good order.
Can't say I've ever folded up my duvet. Not on a flight. It does raise the question or when (if ever) these get laundered. Does leaving it on the seat in a neatish pile vs replacing it overhead change this regularity? I'm assuming 99% of people wear complete clothes or pajamas under here but it does make me wonder. I think it was my eye doc who warned me that the pillows were probably never laundered (I got an eye infection and queried how I could have contracted it).
Feb 23, 2017, 3:48 pm
#25
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My experience reinforces that theory - on our last YYC-FRA flight, approximately 1 hour after waking, my wife noticed an unusual burning feeling starting on one side of her face - the side that was on the the pillow while she slept for a few hours. Within 6 hours it was a lovely full-blown painful rash. Doctor confirmed it was contact dermatitis caused by "something she had recently come into contact with". Of course the only thing her face had touched in the past 18 hours was that pillow. The rash faded over the next 48 hours with no lasting effect, but now she won't use an airline pillow. Ever. Can't say I blame her.
Feb 23, 2017, 4:12 pm
#26
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My experience reinforces that theory - on our last YYC-FRA flight, approximately 1 hour after waking, my wife noticed an unusual burning feeling starting on one side of her face - the side that was on the the pillow while she slept for a few hours. Within 6 hours it was a lovely full-blown painful rash. Doctor confirmed it was contact dermatitis caused by "something she had recently come into contact with". Of course the only thing her face had touched in the past 18 hours was that pillow. The rash faded over the next 48 hours with no lasting effect, but now she won't use an airline pillow. Ever. Can't say I blame her.
Feb 23, 2017, 4:38 pm
#27
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I am accustomed to sleeping at a temperature of around 15 C so I usually find cabins uncomfortably warm and have no need of a duvet.
Jan 1, 2018, 4:58 pm
#28
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So it's been a year, and apparently now become a New Year's Day tradition. The first time I went there was New Year's Day, last year. And I just got back from a movie today. I think my original observation stands.
Given that I've now seen it many many times it's no longer as amazing as it once was. But perhaps it's amazing in a different way - in that even after a year (and presumably the novelty has worn off) people still stand patiently in line while exiting the auditorium so they can deposit their debris in the bins. Moreover when the bins are full people carry their debris into the lobby where there are a lot more garbage cans.
As well, there are still no cell phones lighting up the screen and no perceptible talking, just good behavior.
In related news, their nearest competitor was apparently forced into upgrading to recliners and their only other lower mainland cinema greatly accelerated their upgrade plans. Ticket sales are way, way up in spite of increased admission prices, and the second cinema (which seemed to be on life support since the day it opened a few years ago) is now crazy busy - to the point of looking profitable. Along with ticket sales concession sales are also way up.
There's a significant difference of magnitude between an airline ticket and a visit to a cinema. But I think clearly there are lessons to be learned here.
Given that I've now seen it many many times it's no longer as amazing as it once was. But perhaps it's amazing in a different way - in that even after a year (and presumably the novelty has worn off) people still stand patiently in line while exiting the auditorium so they can deposit their debris in the bins. Moreover when the bins are full people carry their debris into the lobby where there are a lot more garbage cans.
As well, there are still no cell phones lighting up the screen and no perceptible talking, just good behavior.
In related news, their nearest competitor was apparently forced into upgrading to recliners and their only other lower mainland cinema greatly accelerated their upgrade plans. Ticket sales are way, way up in spite of increased admission prices, and the second cinema (which seemed to be on life support since the day it opened a few years ago) is now crazy busy - to the point of looking profitable. Along with ticket sales concession sales are also way up.
There's a significant difference of magnitude between an airline ticket and a visit to a cinema. But I think clearly there are lessons to be learned here.
Jan 1, 2018, 5:23 pm
#29
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I first experienced these seats in a theater in Rio de Janeiro this November.
The ticket price was double the regular type of seating arrangement.
They served alcohol (a bottle of wine for example) and hot food via waiters directly to your seat.
Having said all that, my feet did not stick to the concrete floor, nor did they crunch on spilled popcorn, when I got up to leave.
The ticket price was double the regular type of seating arrangement.
They served alcohol (a bottle of wine for example) and hot food via waiters directly to your seat.
Having said all that, my feet did not stick to the concrete floor, nor did they crunch on spilled popcorn, when I got up to leave.
Jan 1, 2018, 5:42 pm
#30
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[left]
But here's the thing. I've now been to 3 showings in this cinema, and at the end of each show I've seen a sight I never though I would -- almost everyone in the cinema collecting up all their debris - cups, popcorn bags, candy wrappers, and so on, and standing in line on the way out to deposit them in the bins. Colour me astonished. I've never before seen anything like it.
I somehow missed this thread last year.
If I didn't know any better, I would've claimed that you were in Japan.
The thread title confused me, and I realized you meant "by" and not "of".
Of course the treatment of the cabin by passengers could affect cabin cleanliness, but it shouldn't be an acceptable excuse for AC to have us board filthy cabins.
But here's the thing. I've now been to 3 showings in this cinema, and at the end of each show I've seen a sight I never though I would -- almost everyone in the cinema collecting up all their debris - cups, popcorn bags, candy wrappers, and so on, and standing in line on the way out to deposit them in the bins. Colour me astonished. I've never before seen anything like it.
If I didn't know any better, I would've claimed that you were in Japan.
The thread title confused me, and I realized you meant "by" and not "of".
Of course the treatment of the cabin by passengers could affect cabin cleanliness, but it shouldn't be an acceptable excuse for AC to have us board filthy cabins.