totti

Hi folks!

I would very much appreciate input on the following scenario. So far pretty much all my TATL travel (mostly to the US east and west coast) is with BA.

It looks like I will do several trips from Europe to YVR in the years to come and possibly some more within Canada and definitely Canada/US. I was therefore thinking of moving more business to AC and LH but I am not sure which program to credit miles to and have status with.

My main priority is to fly Business or at least Premium Economy on the TATL segments, particularly east bound. I have to manage my own travel budget and the aim is to spend as little as possible and still be able to fly premium cabins. I can start my trips pretty much everywhere in Europe and can usually plan ahead.

I have *A Gold status until January 2020 but neither with AC nor LH and thus it will not really help with upgrades etc. I am familiar with LH and should be able to easily get SEN status again. But LH flights awards are ridiculously expensive (YQ and tax) and spending miles for upgrades is not the best way to use them to say the least.

So how would you compare AC Altitude/Aeroplan to LH M&M? I should be able to earn enough miles and spend enough (I would want to spend less than 20k CAD but as a foreigner I only need 10k CAD anyway) to become Super Elite 100K. How easy or difficult is it to upgrade from Economy or Premium Economy to Business? Want about award availability on international AC flights to and from Europe? Is upgrading a good use of miles in the AC program (as mentioned above it certainly is not with M&M)?

Your feedback on this would be very much appreciated.
Cheers!

Jasper2009

I am / used to be in a similar position (mainly based on Europe with frequent trips to NA while almost all flights being self-funded).

Mileage redemptions:

- Aeroplan charges YQ on some, but not all airlines
- AC SEs are exempt from paying YQ on AC operated flights
- AC SEs can book almost any Y seat as an award seat (unless the flight is oversold) and have access to much more award availability in J (the term commonly used for this is "IKK")
- you can compare the AE and M&M charts yourself, but the main difference is that AE has much more flexible routing rules (no ridiculous "you may not touch a 3rd region" rule or being restricted to 3 segments each way)
- except for a very few redemptions, AE is better than M&M IMO

A few points regarding upgrades:

1) Only booking classes B and Y can be upgraded using miles and you'd need award availability (I), so it's even worse than M&M in this regard.
2) The upgrade instruments you receive as an AC SE (called "e-upgrade credits") are more plentiful and valuable than what you'd get as a LH HON.
3) If you play your cards right, upgrading 5-6 mid-priced economy or premium economy long-haul flights to business class is quite doable; more if you're willing to pay for flexible economy (Latitude fares)

My upgrade success as an AC SE has been ~99% over the last five years, but it requires some planning and learning.

As a starting point I would recommend taking a look at pricing for the different fare categories on ac.com:

- Tango: non-upgradalbe on int'l flights
- Flex: upgradable using e-upgrade credits at T-7days if booking class R (upgrade class) is available
- Latitude: upgradable at time of booking if booking class P (for int'l flights) and booking class Z (for NA flights) is available -> if you're semi-flexible, it's possible to pretty much always confirm your upgrade at time of booking on TATL flights (Latitute fares aren't cheap, but priced more reasonably ex-Europe than ex-NA)
- Premium Economy (lowest): upgradable using e-upgrade credits at T-7days; pax in PE trying to upgrade to J have a higher upgrade priority than pax in Y trying to upgrade to J

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Overall, AE/Altitude are miles better than M&M IMO. I'd actually choose AC SE over LH HON.

A few things that M&M does better:
- companipon awards
- lower change / cancellation fees on awards
- Aeroplan is not owned by AC, which can lead to occasional issues when either company screws up
- can't think of any meaningful status benefits offered to SENs an AC SE wouldn't get

(Minor note: The above information applies to AC SE status; the benefits associated with the lower status levels differ quite a bit, especially as int'l upgrades are concerned)

totti

Dear Japser,

Thank you so much for all the information! This is incredibly valuable and it affirms my assumption that AC may indeed be the way to go. I will do some more research based on your invaluable input but for now I am quite certain that AC may be more useful in my case.

Best wishes and thanks again,
totti

24left

@Jasper2009

AWESOME post and very helpful! ^^^

Mwenenzi

The grass in not always greener on the other side

What are your objectives from a ffp?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/skyte...i-sign-up.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/infor...help-here.html

Another thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-c...-programs.html

totti

Thank you Mwenenzi! I totally agree that the grass is not always greener.

I may well stick with BA as I have in the past. The problem with BA is that while I usually have no problem finding good fares in CW (business) but even as a BA GGL you end up with tons of miles that are almost impossible to spend. I could easily upgrade 15 or so TATL flights from Premium Economy (WT+) but it is almost impossible to find award availability.

In my experience, *A is better when it comes to award and upgrade availability. In an ideal world I would want to be loyal to one carrier I am happy with and in return I am able to use miles and other instruments for occasional upgrades from Prem Eco or Eco to Business in order to safe some bucks. That is pretty much it. All other FFP perks are nice to have but I would definitely prefer to have the ability to regularly upgrade flights or book award flights at a reasonable price.

Jasper2009

Fully agree that *A (in almost all cases) tends to be better than OW for finding award availability. I can find award availablity from almost anywhere to anywhere using *A miles (as long as one is semi-flexible regarding routing, carriers etc.), but the same can't be said about OW.

Regarding upgrade instruments: It's important to distinguish between upgrading using miles (which generally requires award availability in the higher cabin - which is rather non-existent on many airlines) and other upgrade instruments (which often require availability in a dedicated upgrade booking class, which often is much more available than award availability). As far as upgrade instruments are concerned, I think it's hard to avoid looking into AC/AA/UA/DL for regular TATL travel - the other FFPs are just rather mediocre in this regard.

totti

Quick follow-up question: How many Super Elites are there at the moment? I am just curious because as most of you know there are some programs with thousands and thousands of top tier members e.g. British Airways and it would be interesting to know how AC SE compares to this.

Jasper2009

Afaik the number of SEs (and other elites) is unknown. Quite a few years ago (maybe 5 years ago) the number of SEs was estimated (possibly confirmed?) at 11k IIRC.

Various factors may have inreased or decreased the number of the last year. The introduction of AQD last year will have most likely decreased the # by a quite a bit. If I had to provide an educated guess, I'd say 8k-10k SEs.

totti

Thanks Jasper! Your educated guess is in line with information provided in this thread from 2007. I think it is fairly safe to assume that the number of SEs has not significantly increased and most likely rather decreased.

totti

Just wanted to thank you guys for all your help and advice re choosing a new FFP. I made it to SE just in time for early recognition. Now lets see what SE is worth…

Funnily enough, AC status did not get me a single op-up with AC so far but already two with LH on YVR-FRA.