Eugeniusz Bodo

Mc Donald 1 AC 0. Anybody but a uniformed captain in J is what fully blown HIV does to the pimp!

winnipegrev

Yikes. Probably why AC decided to cancel year-round MXP service.

CX does allow pilots + family and certain other staff J/F space-available travel. So does EK. But by nature of their one hub operations they have fewer deadheading flights so you are less likely to notice it.

See above.

Transpacificflyer

News to me if anyone is praising the AC approach. What sets AF/KLM apart is that the cost of the upgrade is discounted and is consistently offered before checkin as well as at checkin. I don't fly often in AC economy, but I have yet to experience a similar option to AF/KLM. When i have inquired at AC checkin on a slow night, it's always been a full fare difference. I suppose it gets back to the pisspoor AC software. If I have it wrong, ok, but that's my experience and perception.


BTW, maybe some of those J seats are truly empty if the AC pricing strategy is full on. I have another SE Asia trip coming up: 1/2 the cost on other airlines, with an easier schedule. I didn't think I'd be piling on the sky rupees this way.

drvannostren

If I'm not mistaken it's in the pilot contracts to be in J no? The FAs don't have that, from what I've heard, but as others have said the AC agents will upgrade them whenever there's space (which hopefully means after eUPs) though it's funny I've seen YYC-YVR, me and like 2 others in J 2 pilots, 2 FAs, 2 seats open...at least 2 Rouge FAs deadheading...in the back.

xray

I've seen this more often than not...

Employers offer these perks but they should also consider the impact as well as the optics. If you get a discount as a retail clerk or you get a free hotel room as a hotel employee, it may impact the consumer if he/she can't get the product due to limited supply. However, it's not in your face... as much as it is when you're flying in a J cabin that is full of employees. (akin to the McD employee eating the Big Mac in front of you AND sitting at your table)

ffsim

Bolding mine. This is exactly what it comes down to -- optics.

We forget that those of us on FT are generally far more informed and in tune with AC's policies that the average frequent flyer. So when Mr. Normal Altituder runs out of eUpgrade credits because upgrades cost twice as much in 2015 as they did in 2014 and hasn't earned any new ones because the first threshold is at 60,000 AQM, he's pissed off. When he boards a flight and makes his way through a J cabin with a significant proportion of employee pax, he's seething.

xLuther

It's a no win when in uniform crew fly's in J, I know I pay more attention to how long meal takes, refill on drinks, etc, if slow I am going to blame the fact crew is getting the attention and I am not.

JamilD

I don't usually fly AC, and so correct me if I'm wrong here, but my impression when searching for flights between YYZ and other destinations in J is that few travelling on their own dime would pay for AC business transborder.

Looking at YYZ-IAH in J, minimum on AC is $1704. On United, $850.

For SFO, AC is $2494 if I buy 2 months in advance, $3,234 otherwise. On United (with one stopover), it's $720. AA and UA on their comparable premium routes (NYC/LAX-SFO) start at $1200.

I'm not complaining -- if I can't afford to pay for the product I don't somehow deserve it. But maybe if AC brought their short/mid-haul business prices in line with the other carriers, the J cabin would have more paying customers? It seems like in an effort to avoid cheapening the J cabin, they seem to be doing exactly that.

superangrypenguin

Captains

vernonc

EK does allow staff to sometimes travel in J. But they are very strict in the conditions where this is allowed to happen. For example - no jeans in the front cabins. Staff travelling on business - example staff travelling to a meeting will be in a confirmed seat in paid J but they will not be in uniform.

kwflyer

+100%. Retail marketing is all about optics and just like in life, your actions ( or inaction) speak louder than words. When you have multiple sales channels (at various prices) for a very similar service offering, channel conflict is a real risk to your sales and value proposition. If your marketing message is ''that if you want J, then pay for J'', then this rule has to be uniform across all sales channels (including employees). Otherwise 'the pay for J' is completely debunked, and the 'cheapening of the product' is just transferred to a different stakeholder. Companies used to get away from this before the sharing/connected economy. But Google/social media never forget.

Employees may have perks but the most effective internal marketed ones are ones that customer can't see and often involve a small token discount off a high cost item (which official spokesman Ben Lipsey readily admits the cost of an empty J seat is small) yet AC thinks it perfectly ethical to pursue two different pricing strategies (cost based) and market (demand) simultaneously which adds further channel conflict, customer antagonizing, and a desire to game the system (''screw them before they screw me'' mantra).

Those who are advocating it for personal non altruistic reasons are really not credible given its quite easy (and convenient) to come up with personal self fulfilling prophecies that benefit very few (or just themselves). That is the epitome of entitlement.

canadiancow

How do you know the rouge FAs were deadheading and not commuting?

kwflyer

I've seen employees get better treatment quite a few times. Recently flew from YYC to SK and a bunch of off duty jazz pilots were trying to get onboard a flight and apparently GA denied boarding to some of the standby pilots (for legitimate reasons) and the pilot (who did get one) didn't like pulled a DYKWIA with the FA (although the FA rightly couldn't do anything) and ended up getting an open bar service.

Everyone else had to pay.

Qster

Dang, you have sharp eyes... it should be CUN (Cancun), sorry
Also very sorry for bring up the subject, didnt think it is so controversial. I have no problem with it as my upgrade was honored but just curious, that's all. SORRY.

drvannostren

Oh ok. Well you're probably right but it does seem to me it's usually anyone with epaulets haha. I remember being on standby like 6-7 years ago YYZ-YVR, whole day was basically full and me being like C9 priority or whatever, I was dead last...EXCEPT I bumped a Westcoast Air pilot lol. I felt bad and apologized to the guy as he stood there in uniform (why he was in uniform in Toronto for a float airline at YVR, I dunno exactly) then I bounced and boarded the plane