Not a good start to Premium Economy
Mar 29, 2015, 2:51 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 12
Not a good start to Premium Economy
I have taken a new job and will be flying to Europe more instead of US/Australia. I have flown Premium Economy with other airlines but not Air Canada.
I booked a PE flight for the first time with Air Canada. A few weeks ago I received a change in itinerary notice. They downgraded me to economy, no explanation why, no offer of a refund, no ability to upgrade, and didn't even assign an exit row or bulkhead seat. I phoned and was told there was no availability for PE on other flights (the day prior) despite being able to see some on their website.
It looks like they have changed planes from a 787 to a 767 (maybe permanently) from YYZ to LHR. Regardless, they need to be treating this product as a real product and not arbitrarily deciding that people will be happy in economy after having paid for a PE ticket.
It also took Air Canada a long time to allow upgrades to PE. I have sat in a couple of flights unable to do an upgrade to Business because the cabin was full, meanwhile the PE cabin was near empty.
All this makes me wonder if Air Canada management consider PE a real product. If they are trying to make this real, then they need to provide the service that people are paying for. And when changes happen (as can be the case), then they need to honour the fact that they cannot provide the service paid for and upgrade the passengers or financially compensate them.
What other industry can sell you an expensive service, take your money months in advance, and then say oops we made a change over which we had complete control and now we cannot provide you that service, here is a lesser service in return - have a nice day.
I booked a PE flight for the first time with Air Canada. A few weeks ago I received a change in itinerary notice. They downgraded me to economy, no explanation why, no offer of a refund, no ability to upgrade, and didn't even assign an exit row or bulkhead seat. I phoned and was told there was no availability for PE on other flights (the day prior) despite being able to see some on their website.
It looks like they have changed planes from a 787 to a 767 (maybe permanently) from YYZ to LHR. Regardless, they need to be treating this product as a real product and not arbitrarily deciding that people will be happy in economy after having paid for a PE ticket.
It also took Air Canada a long time to allow upgrades to PE. I have sat in a couple of flights unable to do an upgrade to Business because the cabin was full, meanwhile the PE cabin was near empty.
All this makes me wonder if Air Canada management consider PE a real product. If they are trying to make this real, then they need to provide the service that people are paying for. And when changes happen (as can be the case), then they need to honour the fact that they cannot provide the service paid for and upgrade the passengers or financially compensate them.
What other industry can sell you an expensive service, take your money months in advance, and then say oops we made a change over which we had complete control and now we cannot provide you that service, here is a lesser service in return - have a nice day.
Mar 29, 2015, 2:56 pm
#2
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,331
If it's any consolation, this is a problem that should go away as more of the fleet gets a PY cabin.
But I agree. They need to accommodate you somehow, be it cash, an upgrade, or a flight on a different date.
But I agree. They need to accommodate you somehow, be it cash, an upgrade, or a flight on a different date.
Mar 29, 2015, 2:58 pm
#3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: YQR
Posts: 2,741
I've had this happen to me too. It was annoying as the itinerary change, as they called it, didn't reference the change from PE to E, only the aircraft change and seat change tipped me off. No idea what the strategy is right now, but longer term most of the wide bodies will have PE as far as I know. At the moment, it seems that we book PE at our own risk.
Mar 29, 2015, 3:02 pm
#4
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
.....All this makes me wonder if Air Canada management consider PE a real product. If they are trying to make this real, then they need to provide the service that people are paying for. And when changes happen (as can be the case), then they need to honour the fact that they cannot provide the service paid for and upgrade the passengers or financially compensate them.
What other industry can sell you an expensive service, take your money months in advance, and then say oops we made a change over which we had complete control and now we cannot provide you that service, here is a lesser service in return - have a nice day.
What other industry can sell you an expensive service, take your money months in advance, and then say oops we made a change over which we had complete control and now we cannot provide you that service, here is a lesser service in return - have a nice day.
Welcome to FT.
Mar 29, 2015, 3:05 pm
#7
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MLL / AC Cafe
Programs: It's hard to get status when the website won't let me book flights.
Posts: 5,706
Sounds like Article 10 of EU 261/2004 would apply (assuming the ex-LHR flight was downgraded too):
Article 10
Upgrading and downgrading
1. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class
higher than that for which the ticket was purchased, it may not
request any supplementary payment.
2. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class
lower than that for which the ticket was purchased, it shall
within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3),
reimburse
(a) 30 % of the price of the ticket for all flights of 1 500 kilometres
or less, or
b) 50 % of the price of the ticket for all intra-Community
flights of more than 1 500 kilometres, except flights
between the European territory of the Member States and
the French overseas departments, and for all other flights
between 1 500 and 3 500 kilometres, or
(c) 75 % of the price of the ticket for all flights not falling
under (a) or (b), including flights between the European
territory of the Member States and the French overseas
departments.
Article 10
Upgrading and downgrading
1. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class
higher than that for which the ticket was purchased, it may not
request any supplementary payment.
2. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class
lower than that for which the ticket was purchased, it shall
within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3),
reimburse
(a) 30 % of the price of the ticket for all flights of 1 500 kilometres
or less, or
b) 50 % of the price of the ticket for all intra-Community
flights of more than 1 500 kilometres, except flights
between the European territory of the Member States and
the French overseas departments, and for all other flights
between 1 500 and 3 500 kilometres, or
(c) 75 % of the price of the ticket for all flights not falling
under (a) or (b), including flights between the European
territory of the Member States and the French overseas
departments.
Mar 29, 2015, 3:17 pm
#8
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E50K (*G) WS Gold | SPG/Fairmont Plat Hilton/Hyatt Diamond Marriott Silver | National Exec Elite
Posts: 19,284
I have taken a new job and will be flying to Europe more instead of US/Australia. I have flown Premium Economy with other airlines but not Air Canada.
I booked a PE flight for the first time with Air Canada. A few weeks ago I received a change in itinerary notice. They downgraded me to economy, no explanation why, no offer of a refund, no ability to upgrade, and didn't even assign an exit row or bulkhead seat. I phoned and was told there was no availability for PE on other flights (the day prior) despite being able to see some on their website.
It looks like they have changed planes from a 787 to a 767 (maybe permanently) from YYZ to LHR. Regardless, they need to be treating this product as a real product and not arbitrarily deciding that people will be happy in economy after having paid for a PE ticket.
It also took Air Canada a long time to allow upgrades to PE. I have sat in a couple of flights unable to do an upgrade to Business because the cabin was full, meanwhile the PE cabin was near empty.
All this makes me wonder if Air Canada management consider PE a real product. If they are trying to make this real, then they need to provide the service that people are paying for. And when changes happen (as can be the case), then they need to honour the fact that they cannot provide the service paid for and upgrade the passengers or financially compensate them.
What other industry can sell you an expensive service, take your money months in advance, and then say oops we made a change over which we had complete control and now we cannot provide you that service, here is a lesser service in return - have a nice day.
I booked a PE flight for the first time with Air Canada. A few weeks ago I received a change in itinerary notice. They downgraded me to economy, no explanation why, no offer of a refund, no ability to upgrade, and didn't even assign an exit row or bulkhead seat. I phoned and was told there was no availability for PE on other flights (the day prior) despite being able to see some on their website.
It looks like they have changed planes from a 787 to a 767 (maybe permanently) from YYZ to LHR. Regardless, they need to be treating this product as a real product and not arbitrarily deciding that people will be happy in economy after having paid for a PE ticket.
It also took Air Canada a long time to allow upgrades to PE. I have sat in a couple of flights unable to do an upgrade to Business because the cabin was full, meanwhile the PE cabin was near empty.
All this makes me wonder if Air Canada management consider PE a real product. If they are trying to make this real, then they need to provide the service that people are paying for. And when changes happen (as can be the case), then they need to honour the fact that they cannot provide the service paid for and upgrade the passengers or financially compensate them.
What other industry can sell you an expensive service, take your money months in advance, and then say oops we made a change over which we had complete control and now we cannot provide you that service, here is a lesser service in return - have a nice day.
Mar 29, 2015, 3:20 pm
#9
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: YVR
Programs: AC*SE MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 4,604
I booked a PE flight for the first time with Air Canada. A few weeks ago I received a change in itinerary notice. They downgraded me to economy, no explanation why, no offer of a refund, no ability to upgrade, and didn't even assign an exit row or bulkhead seat. I phoned and was told there was no availability for PE on other flights (the day prior) despite being able to see some on their website.
AC is usually pretty good with letting you dictate the flight you want in the same cabin with downgauges, but as others have mentioned the options are limited right now with PY.
You're definitely entitled to compensation. Look into the EU rules rather than what AC will want to initially offer.
Mar 29, 2015, 3:22 pm
#10
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Buying Premium Economy, or not
A year ago, AC had a pretty decent Europe promo mileage bonus with an extra bump if you bought PE or J. So I bought PE tickets to LHR for seats on the new 788.
One day, I was checking the AC.com site and saw that PE was no longer available on my flight, and that the equipment was switched to a 330. I was mildly annoyed as AC NEVER called or sent me an email, advising that the cabin where I purchased seats was no longer available.
I called AC and the agent who answered was unfamiliar with what to do, put me on hold, probably called the resource desk etc etc. He comes back and says yes, there was a change and you can sit in Y and we'll refund you $400.
I don't think so.
I paid substantially more for a PE seat and the refund of $400 would still meant that I would have overpaid for a Y seat relative to what I would have paid had I wished to buy Y in the first place at the time of booking.
I said no and was given a full refund.
It was only sheer luck that I noticed the equipment change. There have been numerous posts on this forum form those who were not notified and thus did not know in advance and by the time they did find out, it was too late to cancel and book something else.
My experience was a year ago and AC now has 8 - 788s. It is not a large number, and yes, eventually the 789s will arrive. There will always be equipment swaps for whatever reason and seasonal route adjustments.
If I buy PE, I check the flight frequently to see if there was a swap, and yes, I am well aware some can be last-minute. Beyond that, maybe for some pax it is too risky to buy PE unless they can be sure their seats will still be there why they fly.
One day, I was checking the AC.com site and saw that PE was no longer available on my flight, and that the equipment was switched to a 330. I was mildly annoyed as AC NEVER called or sent me an email, advising that the cabin where I purchased seats was no longer available.
I called AC and the agent who answered was unfamiliar with what to do, put me on hold, probably called the resource desk etc etc. He comes back and says yes, there was a change and you can sit in Y and we'll refund you $400.
I don't think so.
I paid substantially more for a PE seat and the refund of $400 would still meant that I would have overpaid for a Y seat relative to what I would have paid had I wished to buy Y in the first place at the time of booking.
I said no and was given a full refund.
It was only sheer luck that I noticed the equipment change. There have been numerous posts on this forum form those who were not notified and thus did not know in advance and by the time they did find out, it was too late to cancel and book something else.
My experience was a year ago and AC now has 8 - 788s. It is not a large number, and yes, eventually the 789s will arrive. There will always be equipment swaps for whatever reason and seasonal route adjustments.
If I buy PE, I check the flight frequently to see if there was a swap, and yes, I am well aware some can be last-minute. Beyond that, maybe for some pax it is too risky to buy PE unless they can be sure their seats will still be there why they fly.
Mar 29, 2015, 3:43 pm
#11
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE MM, Bonvoy Plat, Hilton G,Nexus, Amex MR Plat,IHG Plat
Posts: 4,426
Not just PE. Last week 321 was upguaged to a 777 from YVR-YYZ. My preferred seat became a regular seat with no notification. Lucky I checked in early and was able to get a exit row.
Mar 29, 2015, 5:13 pm
#12
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: YQR
Posts: 2,741
In the week that I was trying to book LHR through YYZ the website wa selling PE on an assortment of aircraft, 767, 777, and 787. Clearly, there was some sort of website glitch but it was possible to buy it on aircraft that don't have it and the average person isn't going to be knowledgable about AC's fleet. Not good.
I ended up booking the HD through YVR as, barring mx or wx issues, it's unlikely that there will be a sub. The fact that AC doesn't have a well-established protocol for dealing with an aircraft change is the main worrying issue.
I ended up booking the HD through YVR as, barring mx or wx issues, it's unlikely that there will be a sub. The fact that AC doesn't have a well-established protocol for dealing with an aircraft change is the main worrying issue.
Mar 29, 2015, 5:28 pm
#13
Formerly known as newbie elite
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: YUL
Programs: IHG Diamond Ambassador, Accor Platinum, AC50K
Posts: 2,927
Are people here saying that if one buys a more expensive PE ticket and gets involuntarily downgraded to Y there is no refund of the fare difference? That does not seem very fair (or legal?) at all. Why would one buy PE ever then?
Mar 29, 2015, 5:30 pm
#14
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MLL / AC Cafe
Programs: It's hard to get status when the website won't let me book flights.
Posts: 5,706
Mar 29, 2015, 5:33 pm
#15
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: YQR
Posts: 2,741
We weren't offered a rebate. We received an email that said it was an itinerary change. I noted that there was an aircraft change from the 787 to a 777 and then investigated further and discovered we had been moved to row 60. I had just booked the day prior so simply cancelled as I didn't have time to call in to see what was what, but certainly the itinerary change email didn't say anything about the downgrade or fare difference, etc. There really should be a notice that is triggered that lays out options.