superangrypenguin

Not defending anyone, just offering FT feedback. Do you bring more or less revenue than a SE? Probably less, hence the why it is the way it is today.

SparseFlyer

I have seen J R/T for $10K. In net profit alone, that could be the same as a P25-E50. (I did not run the numbers, so don't stone me to death, but I am not talking in pure spend, I am talking in N/P)

25 R/T tango tickets where AC makes $100 in net profit is $2500. 25 R/T is E50K on segments. That $10K J probably netted the same in N/P, especially if none of the 'flexible' benefits have been used.

superangrypenguin

Not stoning you to death, gosh I hate it when on FT that happens. Just offering 1 data point. So last year I gave AC around 20-30K in spend (for Y, occasional M, occasional B fare). -domestic. I'm not a SE either, just saying. Do I take advantage of AC? Yeah - I use the MLL's when there's no PP and I eupgrade myself every now and then, but I still give AC more than that 1 off J customer.

SparseFlyer

Don't worry, I'm not the kind to take offence at a respectfully fought argument.

That being said. I will respectfully disagree with you. AC's net margin in Q3 was about 8.5%. Considering that a lot of the FF here complain that their companies only pay for Tango/Flex, and accepting the premise that Tango flights are sometimes sold at cost/loss, what do you think carries the N/M to 8.5%?

I would not be surprised 1 minute if a paid J (not P, not Z, not C, not lmnop, J) R/T ticket (even domestic!) would yield close to 20-25% in net margin.

Now assuming that J would always be full and with only paid J and discount J (no eUp/opUp), a full fare J could be worth a FF buying 40 tango round trips (almost SE, clearly E75). (These numbers assume a 777-200LR, and prices shown. Yes, YMMV, but I think the point is still clear/valid).

This is why I still can't believe that some are surprised that AC wants more paid J, and less FF. Because that 1 guy paying J trumps a lot of FF in terms of profitability. Sure, he did not fly 80 different planes, but when all is said and done, he still gave the same profit to the company, and he only used your lounge once. You didn't have to give him a varied menu. You did not have to send him a gift through the mail, or carry more of his luggage for free.

But I digress.


Quick Edit: I think the comparison becomes even more ridiculous if you compare domestic fares lol



I got your back jack LOL

I agree with this too. Paid J = you better give me the full J experience. If not, don't sell me J!

superangrypenguin

Ditto And yes, I do see your point, and agree. You win

One other point though, what about pissing off the Dorian's of the world (the 400,000AQMers) who don't use eupgrades, who flies paid J, and takes little advantage of the benefits afforded to him/then.

I mean we've already seen a major F U to AC (LockheedElectra). I'm sure there are many out there like him. These are high margin fliers....that have now gone to DL (IIRC)

SparseFlyer

Yeah, AC really needs to figure out a way retain them properly.

However I don't know what could be done without doing:

1. Create a SUPRE GOD TIER ELITE 200K
2. Devalue enough to make SE100K really exclusive

By devalue I mean like make it harder to get to SE100K.

I don't know really.

What I do know is if they piss off enough Dorians, AC will get wrecked.

The trick question is, does the average Dorian care about eUps, MLLs, and priority boarding?

superangrypenguin

I think that they have already devalued tiers below SE100K enough.

I think the Dorian's of the world (ok, time to throw in new names. Jaysona, yyznomad) etc may care about priority boarding (no for Jayson though, details later). I don't think they care at all about eups (especially with Jaysona's screenshot he posted of like a BILLION eupgrade credits). And I do know that Jayson doesn't know what the inside of a MLL looks like (a sort of joke) as he times his airport runs to the minute. (so that he just shows up during boarding) He doesn't care about priority boarding as he (literally) flies with a small briefcase looking thing (was going to call it a manbag, but we have a Do soon)

Although they might not be wrecked. Jayson actually COSTS AC more than he gives them (well, more like they make $2 from him each trip). He's on an unlimited FP and flying twice a day commuting....we did the math, they truly don't like Jayson

Dorian

An odd question to answer for me, but I do.

I care about e-ups on leisure travel and times when J is off the charts.
I care about MLL's for a quick drink or long connection or showers on the 25+ hour itineraries.
I care about priority boarding when I'm carry on only on a 320 or smaller.

superangrypenguin

I'm curious if you care about any of the benefits that SE gives you over E.

I assume zone 1 = you care because you mention you do care about priority boarding....

But the MLL/eups are things other rungs give you. Do you care about IKK and the Concierge service (which IIRC you have used once?)

Dorian

Yes, I care about IKK for leisure travel and the odd time J is $$$.

Concierge is nice for the odd thing. Used once in 2014 and a few more times before.

I do appreciate getting my meal choice every time and my upgrade window.

superangrypenguin

Ah yes, forgot about that (eup windows). Especially during the eupgrade window promos where they go...

SE100K
Kettle

Bah, I hate it when AC does that. At least on Ewwnited, 75K's are lumped with the 100K's (for zone 1). Bad for you, good for me

SparseFlyer

It was my understanding that you flew mostly J?

What benefits does SE100K give you that J doesn't.

Also, if you do fly J often, do you think that J is often too pricey, and that you leisure travel enough to be affected by the eUp devaluation?

superangrypenguin

He already answered some of your Q's. IKK/Concierge/7 day upgrade window/meal choice

Dorian

I do fly mainly paid J but leisure travel I try to e-up as well as when J is really expensive or I can easily get a Flex fare with R>0 for an immediate flight.

SparseFlyer

do you think that J is often too pricey, and that you leisure travel enough to be affected by the eUp devaluation?