tcook052

http://www.aircanada.com/en/news/trav_adv/140710.html

As a result of the events in Israel, Air Canada has implemented a policy for customers originally scheduled to travel to, from or via Tel Aviv between July 10 and July 18, 2014 with an Air Canada ticket issued no later than July 8, 2014.

If you are scheduled to travel on the affected dates, you may contact Air Canada Reservations to change your flight free of charge, to another date between July 10 and December 10, 2014, subject to availability.

If you purchased your ticket with Aeroplan, please contact Aeroplan directly.

TemboOne

So glad to see AC taking the initiative here and letting pax avoid all potential danger, especially should the situation escalate and possibly even see air traffic curtailed in the region.

travel agent

why is TLV - YYZ stopping in SNN for 30 min. in the last few days?

TemboOne

A seemingly logical guess would be refuelling.

The normal YYZ-TLV flights don't have a great amount of diversion choices because of fuel. Refuelling at SNN would allow flights arriving at TLV but unable to land at the last minute to divert back to Western Europe.

SNN has no capacity limitations and a refuelling stop can be accomplished very quickly.

AC might also want to avoid the need to refuel in TLV and get aircraft in and out quickly. Given the situation there this makes a huge amount of sense.

travel agent

the stop in on the return to YYZ, not on the outbound to TLV

PLeblond

Westbound prevailing winds makes the flight longer. I would assume temperatures and loads are preventing them from taking on enough fuel to make the entire trip back.

Also, there may be airport restrictions not allowing them to use 08/26 the 13k foot runway. Having to use a shorter runway in hot weather could also affect to MTOW.

Just hypotheses though.

TemboOne

My apologies; I stand corrected!

I thought the problem was related to politics and not weather!

As a point of interest does anyone know what the alternates are should landing at TLV have to be aborted at the last minute? Not sure anywhere within an hour of TLV is "comfortable" except perhaps Nicosia!

Sant

AMM is 45min away and I believe Jordan is a pro-western country like Turkey.

Admiral Ackbar

Amman and Nicosia would be my educated guesses.

EDIT: Doh, too slow!

PLeblond

I believe AC's change of policy is motivated by the political situation.

I was referring to the technical stop at SNN. It is possible that using runway 08/26 would bring aircraft into a 'no fly zone' so the runway is inoperative, this could be considered a political reason.. It could also be for maintenance (non political) It could also be something completely different that has nothing to do with what I said.

But usually, if an airplane needs to make a technical stop, where usually it does not one, it is an indicator that the weight at take-off was too high for the conditions or load. Too many people/cargo for the runway length at that temperature. On or all of those.

Jasper2009

Some people may argue neither country is particularly pro-western, but they may be considered less hostile than other countries in the region.

It would be interesting to know what the fuel stop in SNN is about. Since it occured several times, I doubt it was related to technical or weather-related issues. Use of a different, shorter runway or a flight routing which restrict the take-off weight sound like plausible explanations, though IÄm not familar enough with the layout at TLV to make any educated guesses.

winnipegrev

It has been operating with the 24J/187Y 763s instead of 25J/166Y since July 1 to handle the heavier loads booked based on 788 operation so it is possible it is weight related. But I agree with those above it is likely a runway usage problem causing limitations, not that the 211-seast 763s can't fly the route full.

TemboOne

Just for the record folks, there's a lot more info re TLV ops on the EL AL page.

Runway restrictions are in place with departures only to the north and arrivals only to the East.

Some airlines are taking steps to minimise their turn around and get in and out as quickly as possible. Air France is routing flights through Athens to avoid refuelling in Israel.

Not sure how AC will be handling this but it seems as though the WB technical stop at SNN is unrelated to the Israel situation.

PLeblond

If only the runway to the north is being used (I assume that is 03) is only 9,000 ft. TLV-YYZ at just over 5,000 nm already on the edge of the 767s range, especially westbound over the atlantic. I think its safe to assume they can't get the fuel on board for the whole trip, with current passenger loads at that temperature and take off in 9000ft.

As for alternate airports, keep in mind that these are not emergency landing airports, but planned alternate airports in the case of weather or traffic issues at the primary destination. The usual rule of thumb is fuel to the destination, plus fuel to the alternate airport, plus fuel for 1 hour. AC would most likely use an alternate airport that they have agreements with for ground handling, fuel, catering, etc. Also, visa considerations for (most) people on board would have to be considered, should you need to deplane. You wouldn't want your alternate to be too close when weather is a factor (example hurricanes cover lots of area). I would assume on the YYZ-TLV route that the alternates are ATH or IST or AMM.

TemboOne

Not sure that AMM would be good non-emergency diversion for AC as Canadians, British and Americans all seem to require an $80 visa there.

Nicosia is the closest (to TLV) "safe" diversion option that I'm familiar with but AC has no handling agents there.