HangTen

The Island Airport, even though it is tax payer owned, pretty much exists for the benefit of Porter's shareholders as Porter has 85% of all commercial take off and landing slots there, both now and forever, unless somebody comes to their senses.

Can you imagine any one airline in the US or anywhere else controlling 85% of all flights in a market?

US Airways / AA had 65% at Washington's DCA, even with IAD about 40 minutes away, and the US Department of Justice forced them to give up numerous slots to LCC's like jetBlue, Southwest and Virgin AMerica to ensure there was adequate competition.

Porter has 85% of the slots and no one says a word! Amazing!!

I have never seen an example where when someone controls 85% of the market that prices remain low.

rehoult

Sure, Dallas Love Field is 99.5% Southwest. You could argue that it doesn't matter because of DFW, but than the same would hold true of YYZ.

The situation are also quite similar: Southwest is the only one at Love because no-one else wanted it and Porter rules YTZ because everyone else had abandoned it. Hard to complain about either situation given that everyone else left.

CloudsBelow

LOL ...... Never. That's to scary to even contemplate.
Whoops, What about WN @ MDW?
How is WN @ MDW with ORD nearby any different from PD @ YTZ with YYZ nearby?

yul36

I find it laughable. Some of these people live in buildings right beside the rumble and pollution of one of the busiest expressways in the country. They complain about something they cannot see through the jungle of condos between them and the airport.

CarNut

And don't forget that Porter has been operating since October 2006 and how many of those condo dwellers bought or rented KNOWING all about Porter and the airport.

Also, don't forget that AC continues YTZ-YUL because it's head office is in Montreal while a number of their executives have homes in Toronto.

winnipegrev

Ridiculous. AC operates YTZ-YUL because there was a time where it was likely one of very few routes turning a profit for Porter, so AC decided to try and get all the commuters back to AC with 15x/day hourly service and starve Porter out.

We won't know if that is happening or not since Porter isn't going public after all. But they were losing money in 2010 before AC even reentered YTZ, and based on AC's poor YTZ load factors and Porters 2010 financials I'd say neither are doing stellar.

Alpha Golf

Question for folks -- I have a YUL-YTZ booked (thanks for matching Porter's fares). It shows as "snack." And idea what I can expect?

yul36

A bag of Chips, a chocolate bar, free wine or beer. Same as Porter. They used to serve a cold breakfast, and a Half sandwich or Wrap on lunch or dinner flights not sure if that has been cut yet or not.

CloudsBelow

Is that true? Amazing what a little competition can spur!

And, sadly, why the cycle will follow its course ......... AC forced to compete, slash fares, everyone wants their AP/*A, abysmal LF for the upstart, fade to black (maybe fade to red is more appropriate).
Next stage, complain when AC slashes in flight service and raise fares.
Not criticizing you personally of course.

Alpha Golf

Hehe... paid them US$88 yesterday (WAS-YUL-YTZ), back up to $345 today.

OTOH if the seat would have been empty this is $88 (less taxes) they wouldn't otherwise have had.

HangTen

I guess the difference is that I can fly from Dallas to St Louis tomorrow for $289 or to Albuquerque for $307 including all taxes. I could fly from Dallas to Chicago Midway airport, the same airport Porter flies to, for as little as $362.

Porter is charging a base fare of $1,100.50, excluding taxes, for Toronto to Chicago tomorrow, about 100 miles shorter distance than to St Louis or Albuquerque.

I highly doubt the cost of operating in Canada is over 3x higher than in the US.

If it were, wouldn't the fare from Toronto to Las Vegas tomorrow be 3 times as high as from Buffalo to Las Vegas?

Yet tomorrow night, I can fly from Toronto to Las Vegas non stop for $360 yet Buffalo to Las Vegas one stop is $569.

canadiancow

You can't just compare a random price without also knowing how many seats are booked on the flights.

A flight that's already oversold is going to have very expensive tickets. I flight that's half empty is not.

CT1

Exactly it's supply and demand. That's like saying a two-storey house in Vancouver should cost the same as a two-storey house in Windsor because the cost of labour and materials to build the house is the same.

I once had to travel for work last minute YYC-YXE - this is a one hour flight, and work paid $1,500+ for me to get the last seat on the plane. The fare had nothing to do with the operating cost of the flight, I can assure you.

entropy

And UA (before pulling out) charged $1800 for YYZ-CLE @ 190 miles.

The fares aren't based on logic.

AC shouldn't really be bothering with YTZ except that its defensive (and even then its not really smart if they're losing money... most flights I've been on AC to YTZ haven't been terribly full)

Once the UP train is done, Pearson will be much easier/faster/reliable from the downtown core. I ride my bike to YTZ from my office so its super fast/easy, but for people stuck on that stupid shuttle bus with the construction mess on Front St, it can take forever to get to the Island

kwflyer

Free spirits as well (Gin, Rum, Scotch, Whisky, Vodka, Baileys).

Meals (sandwiches) are served during meal times. Otherwise a generous snack basket (cliff bars are great). Its basically a short haul business class service minus the big seat. Although chances are, the seat next to you will be empty.

AC has always one upped Porter on the inflight catering (more beverage choices and bigger meals/snacks)