Aeroplan points actually have negative value..
Nov 21, 2012, 11:14 pm
#61
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 121
I know you're just saying that as a general statement, but in case anyone was hoping/wishing/praying they could get Chase Sapphire or other US-based credit card, unless you have a US SSN, Canadians cannot get one as most, if not all, credit card applications require you to give your SSN or similar. If it was as easy as simply having US address to get a cc, we'd all dump the Canadian cards in a heartbeat 
Nov 21, 2012, 11:23 pm
#62
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: YLW
Programs: AC, UA, Hilton Gold, IHG Plat, SPG, Hyatt
Posts: 173
It depends on your expectations for international F. I flew UA from SFO to FRA on my last mini-RTW in Spetember, and while it is not the luxurious service you might get on OZ or LX, the hard product is quite good and the meals and wine are still a step up from J in most carriers. If your primary objective is to get a good nights sleep, with maybe a steak and a few glasses of California Cab to help you sleep, UA gets the job done. Think of it as comparing a Hilton to a Four Seasons - pretty good vs excellent. You will not have a UA FA kneel beside your seat to fill your glass, but my last trip they were very friendly and attentive. You'll find UA F trip reports in the Community>Trip Reports section of this board.
Nov 21, 2012, 11:40 pm
#63
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,331
I don't know if this applies to you, but I'll share it here for the benefit of others.
I recently moved to the US, and it was not easy getting a credit card. Even when I was finally approved, it is not quite the card I wanted, and the limit is low. You need more than a US address and SSN to get a good card. You need credit history
I recently moved to the US, and it was not easy getting a credit card. Even when I was finally approved, it is not quite the card I wanted, and the limit is low. You need more than a US address and SSN to get a good card. You need credit history
Nov 22, 2012, 12:47 pm
#64
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: YOW
Programs: AC SEMM; AA,DL, Hyatt and Starwood. Ex-status:SQ PPS,CSA,Hilton,AA,UA
Posts: 743
montrealer, I dont know what you mean by if you can find availability on UA - its the exact same inventory for general members. Yes, I know AC flights you can do IKK for SEs - but any level elite gets extra access to UA Y inventory as well, and 75k+ elites get plenty of extra business inventory, so its a wash.
And, I disagree with "often its still pretty good value" - more like at odd times, its still pretty good value.
And, I disagree with "often its still pretty good value" - more like at odd times, its still pretty good value.
The problem is on each program you get extra access to seats on that carrier's flights. I live in Ottawa, where I am much better connected to the outside world on AC- than UA-operated flights. So I value IKK-like access to AC seats more than to UA seats, enough to compensate for either paying or spending the effort to bypass Aeroplan higher charges. Basically, I'm usually happy to jiggle schedules and routings to get the optimal J longhaul, but that strategy would break down if I would then have to hopscotch around with multiple hops or take ridiculously timed connecting flights to catch it.
I'd agree that for many people, Aeroplan redemptions are much poorer value than they think they are (and than they used to be). But I don't agree that they're necessarily poor value compared to the alternatives.
[Just checked: UA serves 7 US hubs with 32 flights daily total from YYZ, and only 3 hubs with 12 flights daily from YOW. Of course YYZ is better connected overall, but it demonstrates why UA seat access, preferential or not, is less valuable to me.]
Nov 22, 2012, 12:58 pm
#65
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,305
Sorry for the tardy reply - too much travelling
The problem is on each program you get extra access to seats on that carrier's flights. I live in Ottawa, where I am much better connected to the outside world on AC- than UA-operated flights. So I value IKK-like access to AC seats more than to UA seats, enough to compensate for either paying or spending the effort to bypass Aeroplan higher charges. Basically, I'm usually happy to jiggle schedules and routings to get the optimal J longhaul, but that strategy would break down if I would then have to hopscotch around with multiple hops or take ridiculously timed connecting flights to catch it.
I'd agree that for many people, Aeroplan redemptions are much poorer value than they think they are (and than they used to be). But I don't agree that they're necessarily poor value compared to the alternatives.
[Just checked: UA serves 7 US hubs with 32 flights daily total from YYZ, and only 3 hubs with 12 flights daily from YOW. Of course YYZ is better connected overall, but it demonstrates why UA seat access, preferential or not, is less valuable to me.]
The problem is on each program you get extra access to seats on that carrier's flights. I live in Ottawa, where I am much better connected to the outside world on AC- than UA-operated flights. So I value IKK-like access to AC seats more than to UA seats, enough to compensate for either paying or spending the effort to bypass Aeroplan higher charges. Basically, I'm usually happy to jiggle schedules and routings to get the optimal J longhaul, but that strategy would break down if I would then have to hopscotch around with multiple hops or take ridiculously timed connecting flights to catch it.
I'd agree that for many people, Aeroplan redemptions are much poorer value than they think they are (and than they used to be). But I don't agree that they're necessarily poor value compared to the alternatives.
[Just checked: UA serves 7 US hubs with 32 flights daily total from YYZ, and only 3 hubs with 12 flights daily from YOW. Of course YYZ is better connected overall, but it demonstrates why UA seat access, preferential or not, is less valuable to me.]
However, I know people love their IKK - but its only for SEs
UA also has extra access for elites (Plat+ J, all elites for Y) - and this is greater than IKK availability.
So overall - using UA points gives you access to far greater inventory, period.
hmm.. as for the hubs - I guess we can go on UA from YYZ to EWR,CLE,IAH,IAD,DEN,SFO,ORD for easy onwards connections, while YOW only gets a few express flights. 32 daily flights doesnt seem like a lot of capacity seeing how its mostly on E145s, Q400s and CR7s.... Hopefully we will see some mainline planes more often in YYZ, and not only to ORD and SFO.
Nov 23, 2012, 8:18 pm
#66
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: West
Posts: 3,357
YYC-NY 4 day stay
NY- KRK stop
from here will travel to other cities in Europe but as a separate idea and not part of this itinerary
KRK-YUL 4 day stay
YUL-YYC
How best to use my AE points (the only program I am on) ? I have sufficient accumulation for 2 J tickets. As a season traveler and with a location of KRK in you profile your suggestions would be welcomed. Comments from others would also be appreciated.
Last edited by 1Newflyer; Nov 24, 2012 at 10:47 am
Nov 24, 2012, 12:13 am
#67
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 583
Cheers
Nov 24, 2012, 5:23 am
#68
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,305
On the way back, I suggest flying ZRH-YUL if you can find it, or again on LO via YYZ.
KRK/KTW is a good base for cheap European fares.
Nov 24, 2012, 10:51 am
#69
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: West
Posts: 3,357
For best value, you need to fly NYC-Europe as well as return longhaul on UA/SN/LX. If you are going next year - you may want to do LO TATL on their new 787s from JFK to WAW. The fees AC charges on LO are about half of those of LH/OS/AC.
On the way back, I suggest flying ZRH-YUL if you can find it, or again on LO via YYZ.
KRK/KTW is a good base for cheap European fares.
On the way back, I suggest flying ZRH-YUL if you can find it, or again on LO via YYZ.
KRK/KTW is a good base for cheap European fares.
Anyone knows when LO will start using the 787s to JFK or YYZ?
Nov 24, 2012, 12:22 pm
#70
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,305
Nov 24, 2012, 2:50 pm
#71
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: West
Posts: 3,357
Great and thanks again, it fits my plans. Just hope they stick to above dates. If I book it and its delayed....then I guess I loose and will travel what ever plane they have at that time. April 10 for NY..... maybe June for YYZ. Should be plenty to workout the quirks.
Nov 25, 2012, 4:29 pm
#72
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: YOW
Programs: AC SEMM; AA,DL, Hyatt and Starwood. Ex-status:SQ PPS,CSA,Hilton,AA,UA
Posts: 743
Example for my claim above that reasonably valuable Aeroplan redemptions are not that hard to find.
I just looked up and redeemed:
YOW-DCA one day this week, return the next day. 15,000 pts + $167 using IKK Y.
Alternatively could have booked nonstop flights for $789 (non reward). That works out to about 4c/mile - not bad.
Could I have gotten better value with United points? I checked:
Even as a United pleb, one way is available as a Saver award (it's actually the AC flight); the other way only as a Standard award from IAD. Even if I had United status enough to "IKK-equivalent" it, it would still be 25,000 miles + $130, a value of 2.6c/mile. Not bad, but not as good as Aeroplan.
Moral of the story - sometimes Aeroplan is good, sometimes it's horrid. You just have to be careful and calculate....
I just looked up and redeemed:
YOW-DCA one day this week, return the next day. 15,000 pts + $167 using IKK Y.
Alternatively could have booked nonstop flights for $789 (non reward). That works out to about 4c/mile - not bad.
Could I have gotten better value with United points? I checked:
Even as a United pleb, one way is available as a Saver award (it's actually the AC flight); the other way only as a Standard award from IAD. Even if I had United status enough to "IKK-equivalent" it, it would still be 25,000 miles + $130, a value of 2.6c/mile. Not bad, but not as good as Aeroplan.
Moral of the story - sometimes Aeroplan is good, sometimes it's horrid. You just have to be careful and calculate....
Nov 25, 2012, 5:40 pm
#73
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,305
Could I have gotten better value with United points? I checked:
Even as a United pleb, one way is available as a Saver award (it's actually the AC flight); the other way only as a Standard award from IAD. Even if I had United status enough to "IKK-equivalent" it, it would still be 25,000 miles + $130, a value of 2.6c/mile. Not bad, but not as good as Aeroplan.
ok just checked - YOW-IAD is available EVERY SINGLE DAY multiple flights a day - this week for ANY LEVEL elites in Y/"F" as well as DCA (but with a connection) on UA metal
Cost is 20000 miles for Y + $55.40 (no close in fee for Plat+, +$25 for Gold)
So basically the trade off to those 5000 AE miles you are saving, you make up for by paying $112 extra in
scamcharges/fake NAVCAN taxes.
Nov 25, 2012, 10:47 pm
#74
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 6,385
Our strategy is to work all the accumulation angles and only redeem for long F trips. So Aeroplan miles still work for us. Haven't had to pay big yet, although this was the most expensive so far as it's usually been ~$130 each for our previous F trips. I imagine it'll only get worse in 2014. A good sign is how the bastages excluded MR points from their annual December transfer bonus deal. 
Caveat is that we find the best deal in the general Jan.-Mar. timeframe and then book our holiday, not the other way around. Well at least Mrs. Ronintech does, as I'm self employed so my boss always says yes.
Caveat is that we find the best deal in the general Jan.-Mar. timeframe and then book our holiday, not the other way around. Well at least Mrs. Ronintech does, as I'm self employed so my boss always says yes.
I know you're just saying that as a general statement, but in case anyone was hoping/wishing/praying they could get Chase Sapphire or other US-based credit card, unless you have a US SSN, Canadians cannot get one as most, if not all, credit card applications require you to give your SSN or similar. If it was as easy as simply having US address to get a cc, we'd all dump the Canadian cards in a heartbeat
Nov 26, 2012, 6:48 am
#75
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: AC MM E50 , Former SPG, now Marriott LT Plat
Posts: 6,261
Not negative, but minimal value.
Just booked a PBI-YYZ return flight over Xmas/New Year period.
Revenue flight was $401 all in.
AE reward on same flights was 25,000 miles plus $169.00 co-pay.
That means AC is valuing 25,000 miles at $232.00 = less than 1 cpm.
Again pointing out the lack of value for Y rewards.
Just booked a PBI-YYZ return flight over Xmas/New Year period.
Revenue flight was $401 all in.
AE reward on same flights was 25,000 miles plus $169.00 co-pay.
That means AC is valuing 25,000 miles at $232.00 = less than 1 cpm.
Again pointing out the lack of value for Y rewards.