Poaching rhinos / elephants, etc. Is it as bad as we are told?
May 5, 2013, 10:21 am
#31
Moderator: Travel Buzz
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sunny San Diego
Posts: 3,099
The story I quoted in the OP about the park rangers taking bribes and directing poachers to where the rhinos are is very alarming. It's also very recent. Perhaps this is not in the parks or even countries that you are discussing, but it is mainstream news and it certainly appears to be a major breakdown in the system. I don't really see the need to sling mud at another poster in this thread.
Regarding bribery-- Perhaps, in some areas of Africa, as in Mexico, the taking of "bribes" or mordita (sp?) is a commonplace method for struggling employees to make a few extra bucks to feed their families. What is unthinkable here in the USA (offer a cop a twenty to avoid a ticket) was pretty much a standard M.O. in Mexico-- at least for many many decades. It was (and possibly still is), just one acceptable way of operating- nod, nod, wink, wink and we all go on our merry way.
Until something gets brought into the limelight via the courts or media, no one of us can really tell, can we, who is or who is not taking bribes? Or paying bribes, for that matter... My crystal ball simply isn't that accurate.
Regarding bribery-- Perhaps, in some areas of Africa, as in Mexico, the taking of "bribes" or mordita (sp?) is a commonplace method for struggling employees to make a few extra bucks to feed their families. What is unthinkable here in the USA (offer a cop a twenty to avoid a ticket) was pretty much a standard M.O. in Mexico-- at least for many many decades. It was (and possibly still is), just one acceptable way of operating- nod, nod, wink, wink and we all go on our merry way.
Until something gets brought into the limelight via the courts or media, no one of us can really tell, can we, who is or who is not taking bribes? Or paying bribes, for that matter... My crystal ball simply isn't that accurate.
May 5, 2013, 2:28 pm
#32
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
. No doubt this just an expedient to keep them behind bars. They are due in court again on Monday (tomorrow), hopefully somebody will have scrounged up an interpreter by then. I suspect that speakers of Vietnamese are not in ample supply in SA, and finding one without a rhino horn in his back pocket must be extra hard. Even Vietnamese diplomats are in on the game:"In 2006 and 2008 the Vietnamese embassy in Pretoria was involved in a number of scandals in which senior diplomats, including a political counsellor, an economic attaché and the embassy's first secretary, were implicated in smuggling rhino horn. To date, Vietnam has failed to take any action against the diplomats."
Source
By the way, SANParks rangers shot dead a poacher near Croc Bridge last night. Two others escaped and fled back to, you guessed it, . . . Moz!
Johan
May 6, 2013, 8:02 am
#33
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,861
I suspect that speakers of Vietnamese are not in ample supply in SA, and finding one without a rhino horn in his back pocket must be extra hard. Even Vietnamese diplomats are in on the game:
"In 2006 and 2008 the Vietnamese embassy in Pretoria was involved in a number of scandals in which senior diplomats, including a political counsellor, an economic attaché and the embassy's first secretary, were implicated in smuggling rhino horn. To date, Vietnam has failed to take any action against the diplomats."
"In 2006 and 2008 the Vietnamese embassy in Pretoria was involved in a number of scandals in which senior diplomats, including a political counsellor, an economic attaché and the embassy's first secretary, were implicated in smuggling rhino horn. To date, Vietnam has failed to take any action against the diplomats."
Facts: (1) there were allegations 5 or 7 years ago about certain Vietnamese diplomats (2) the allegations were never proven.
Your assumptions from those facts: (1) the allegations were true (2) many to all Vietnamese in South Africa (not just the diplomats) were involved then and are involved now in poaching, even simple translators.
Congratulations.
May 6, 2013, 8:36 am
#34
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Cape Town
Programs: BAEC/SAA VOYAGER
Posts: 124
Johan, this is such a global issue, not just the subject of the OP's original post, sharks and numerous other exotic creatures are facing an uncertain future , it stretches deep and high from a poor person trying to survive to a multi millionaire and yes even high ranking officials, rhinos have apparently just been made extinct in Mozambique, gloomy but true, but there are amazing people striving to at least halt the speed of the carnage, lets hope for better news soon.
May 8, 2013, 1:34 pm
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
Vietnamese Diplomats and Criminal Syndicates Implicated in Illegal Rhino Horn Trade
I know, I know, the allegations have not been proven. That's fine by me. I'm not a judge, just prejudiced. Vietnam is one of those other countries like Tanzania, where graft and corruption only exist in my imagination.
Johan
I know, I know, the allegations have not been proven. That's fine by me. I'm not a judge, just prejudiced. Vietnam is one of those other countries like Tanzania, where graft and corruption only exist in my imagination.
Johan
Last edited by l etoile; Jan 17, 2014 at 5:09 pm Reason: Removed deleted quote
May 8, 2013, 1:37 pm
#36
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
May 8, 2013, 1:53 pm
#37
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
Yep, even simple translators!
"Hishaam Mohamed, provincial head of Justice, said on Saturday that “some of the interpreters” who offered their services had allegedly been “compromised, so the Justice Department did not want to make use of them”.
He added that the challenges faced by the department in obtaining Vietnamese interpreters included:
* The interpreters were often suspected of being influenced by those connected to the accused, and in some instances bribes were offered.
* Others did not pass security checks, raising further questions about whether they had also been compromised."
Source
Johan
"Hishaam Mohamed, provincial head of Justice, said on Saturday that “some of the interpreters” who offered their services had allegedly been “compromised, so the Justice Department did not want to make use of them”.
He added that the challenges faced by the department in obtaining Vietnamese interpreters included:
* The interpreters were often suspected of being influenced by those connected to the accused, and in some instances bribes were offered.
* Others did not pass security checks, raising further questions about whether they had also been compromised."
Source
Johan
May 8, 2013, 6:05 pm
#38
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,861
Lions and other wildlife often die without human intervention, leaving no trace. Not everything bad is caused by a criminal syndicate (or Vietnamese).
Last edited by Austinrunner; May 8, 2013 at 6:27 pm
May 8, 2013, 6:30 pm
#39
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,861
He added that the challenges faced by the department in obtaining Vietnamese interpreters included:
* The interpreters were often suspected of being influenced by those connected to the accused, and in some instances bribes were offered.
* Others did not pass security checks, raising further questions about whether they had also been compromised.[/COLOR]"
Source
* The interpreters were often suspected of being influenced by those connected to the accused, and in some instances bribes were offered.
* Others did not pass security checks, raising further questions about whether they had also been compromised.[/COLOR]"
Source
* Vietnamese interpreters sourced in South Africa were often unwilling to assist.
May 9, 2013, 3:17 pm
#40
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
Johan
May 9, 2013, 3:33 pm
#41
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
It is probably not a good career move for a Vietnamese interpreter to help get a compatriot convicted, the embassy is bound to notice. Vietnam is a country run by a dictatorial and oppressive regime. Exploiting the population for their own gain is their speciality; nepotism, corruption and graft permeate society. What kind of people do you think a country like that selects to officially represent it abroad? Upstanding citizens who subscribe to the highest moral and ethical standards? Guess again!
I grew up in a diplomatic enviroment. Heck, I even spent nine months in a diplomatic womb. Take it from me, rotten countries staff their embassies with rotten diplomats. Vietnam is a rotten country.
Johan
May 10, 2013, 9:03 am
#42
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Dublin
Posts: 188
By Tshepiso Mokhema
May 10 (Bloomberg) -- Kalashnikov-bearing men slaughtered
at least 26 elephants in the Dzanga Bai World Heritage Site in
the Central African Republic on May 6 the WWF said, urging the
country to protect the animals after President Francois Bozize
was overthrown in March.
This is intolerable....this wanton jumping to conclusions has to stop.
May 10 (Bloomberg) -- Kalashnikov-bearing men slaughtered
at least 26 elephants in the Dzanga Bai World Heritage Site in
the Central African Republic on May 6 the WWF said, urging the
country to protect the animals after President Francois Bozize
was overthrown in March.
This is intolerable....this wanton jumping to conclusions has to stop.
May 11, 2013, 3:18 pm
#43
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
May 12, 2013, 1:56 am
#44
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: Hilton, United, Gold DL
Posts: 993
After seeing a poaching victim/survivor it is still a problem. Kariega had three rhinos poached in one night. Two survived the initial incident and one of those died about three weeks later. There has to be a solution, and I am not sure what it is, but it needs to be implemented sooner rather than later.
Last edited by RacingJunkie; May 12, 2013 at 1:58 am Reason: resize
May 12, 2013, 9:13 am
#45
Moderator: Travel Buzz
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sunny San Diego
Posts: 3,099
These 27 forest elephants last week had the misfortune of living in a world heritage site that is located in a country of extreme instability. When a government is overthrown and there is no legal/justice administration system in place, chaos reigns.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22486152
http://news.yahoo.com/elephant-poach...9RSksAYBvQtDMD
http://science.nbcnews.com/_news/201...-poachers?lite
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22486152
http://news.yahoo.com/elephant-poach...9RSksAYBvQtDMD
http://science.nbcnews.com/_news/201...-poachers?lite
Last edited by StartinSanDiego; May 12, 2013 at 11:09 am