With the frequent flier programs, people who fly domestically often are flying in first class because:
a. they're redeeming mileage to upgrade
b. they're an elite member
c. flying on a coach fare basis that gives complimentary upgrades (e.g. NW ConnectFirst -- upgrade on select markets while flying full-fare coach)
d. the domestic segment is being used to connect to an international flight, and the pax is flying internationally on full-fare business/first class

So my question is: does anyone pay the full-fare first class to fly around the U.S. these days?

- Pat

A friend of mine once paid First Class to fly ATL-PHL for a family emergency when DL was sold out in coach.

But thats about it!

I sure as anything don't, and I would seriously challenge any vendor who's considering a contract with me who does.

Desirable as first class is, I think it's a terribly frivolous waste of money to buy a US-domestic first-class ticket, life-emergencies and no other means notwithstanding, for a flight that lasts 5 hours at most, especially with all of the opportunities to upgrade from a cheaper ticket.

It's not a question of having the money or not. It's not a question of whether it can be expensed or not. It's simply an issue of sensibility.

Those dot.bomb's (boo.com comes to mind)... look at where doing this without abandon got them (and us).

[This message has been edited by ETOPS (edited 04-01-2001).]

I think we'd be surprised how many on the corporate dime are ENTITLED to First Class and (their companies) pay for it.

The account for the US Government alone in all its guises flying around big shots and senators, ambassadors, and congressmen would be enormous, and I doubt you'll ever see them in coach! That dollar input alone would probably justify the airlines keeping it on.

If an Aussie businessman buys a business class ticket SYD-NYC or MIA or BOS etc (as virually EVERY half senior exec is automatically entitled to as part of their job contract) you are (on United anyway) almost always in First acorss the USA as the bulk of UA domestic are 2 classer 757/737/767 and Airbus etc.



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~ Glen ~

A few scenarios for purchased domestic first:

First of all, I don't think it is a "waste of money." Because of my elite status, I wouldn't purchase a FC ticket because I can craft my schedule to flights where I can get the upgrade. However many coporate execs have FC written into their contracts as do many consultants (I have done this) when negotiating terms. For flights of 2 to 2 1/2 hours or less in length, no big deal - but trans-continental flying for 4-5 hours is rough in coach.

I have had situations where I purchased first:
1. Full fare economy and first are within 10% of each other.
2. Coach is sold out and it's the only routing available.

Otherwise, it's pretty much upgrades & comps.

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Ken in Sacramento

I've purchased a small handfull of full-F tickets in my life...always when a last-minute flight was required and Y was either sold out or nearly as expensive as F. Our company guidelines are to purchase tickets as far in advance in discounted coach, but when a last-minute flight is required, sometimes you don't have a choice.

The front cabin has really become a marketing tool for very frequent fliers and full fare coach ticket buyers(many carriers will put you in the cabin if you buy these). With the rare exception of professionals (lawyers, consultants, etc.),billing their clients for the seats, what you generally have are:

1. FF upgrades
2. Full coach tickets
3. Awards (includes mileage
just for the upgrade)
4. Overbooks
5. Non revs

The crew invariably gets a manifest which identifies who is what, and they often deal with the pax accordingly. The carriers have reduced the level of service to reflect the real customer base, all of which begs the question, "who would be crazy enough to actually pay for it"? The obvious answer is, not very many.

My former employer used to pay full F fares for all senior managers (including myself). I thought it was an incredible waste, and used to regularly offer to fly coach if the company would share some of the difference with me-- these offers were politely rebuffed. I guess this is one of the reasons I don't work there anymore.

With respect to the comments on congressmen, senators, etc., on this thread, I have a couple of comments.

1) Everytime I have ever seen a congressman or senator on board an aircraft, they have been in coach.

2) One of my best friends used to be a congressman, and he told me that he was virtually always offered a free upgrade to first class when he was recognized by the ground staff. He always refused such offers, however, as he indicated that it would be "political suicide" for him to ever be caught by his consituents living like a "fat cat."

ozstamps writes:
Wrong!.....All US Government employees flying on the taxpayers dime, domestic or international, are in coach, there is an exception: Ambassadors on the first trip to their post and their last trip home are allowed to travel in F/C.

[This message has been edited by snake (edited 04-01-2001).]

Seems I stand corrected on that one for US flying. I find it astounding to believe that when Kennedy, or leading Senators, or Alan Greenspan etc, fly on official business domestically they are always down in coach, even on 6 hour+ transcon flights, but I learn something new each day.

EVERY serving Federal politician here, (and many State as well) House of Reps or Senate gets automatic entitlement to First or Business Class seating for ANY domestic flight they make, on business or otherwise, ditto their spouses, and sadly, ditto their children pretty often.

Worse still HERE, they get to personally keep the Flyer points as well!

There was a notorious matter recently where a Senator Mal Colston used to fly up front from Canberra to WA, (transcon) get off the plane, reboard, and fly back to Canberra just to get the flyer points, and get a special travel allowance! Police could not touch him for all the zillions of bucks in wasted money on the flights, but tried to prosecute him for claiming he flew on 43 days when he did not, but claimed the allowance for. Even that one fizzed out, and no charges were laid.

All senior government employees here in the Greenspan league, and most a lot more junior have the same legal entitlement. Retiring long serving MP's, Senators, and all ex PM's get an unlimited Gold Pass for LIFE for domestic travel and a specificed number of It'l, all in First or Business, if a First cabin not offered.

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~ Glen ~

People who work for a company that pays for full fare economy class (due to last minute meetings so last minute bookings) but not first class?

The employee pays the difference betweent he full Y fare and the F fare out of his own pocket? And therefore, a domestic F ticket is paid for.

OZ stamps:
As a regular in and out of DC, I can tell you first-hand that most US politicals, from congress members to cabinet officers, fly coach. That's were the voters are, so the effective pols can't afford an opportunity to meet, greet, and appear like a regular guy or gal. I'm surprised it's different Down Under. A lot of the folks flying up front in/out of DC are lawyers (lobbyists), dot.com types, and the rest of us hoi paloi paying coach and leveraging our ff benies. I'd be surprised if even 10% of the folks sitting up front paid an F fare. Just checked and DL wants $1,400 rt from DC to Atlanta (Hello! Earth to Airline!). Back in 1978, I remember the rt F fare was $178 and full coach was $148 - I paid full F all the time and was just out of college. Even factoring inflation, this F fare should be no more than $500. But you can still coach for about $148 with tons of restrictions. Go figure!

I still would love to see video footage of Alan Greenspan or Ted Kennedy or Madelaine Albright sitting in coach on a transcon!

No wonder our taxes are so high here as every darn civil servant above middle management generally gets paid up front seats.

Many pax do pay the full fare tho. Business Class USA-OZ is about $7,000 and F runs about $10,000. I flew back UA last week from SFO-SYD and nearly HALF of the C seats of the 84 on the 747 were occupied by PAID pax. Yes, the other half (it was full) were clearly FF using certs, points, or were staff, but 40 paid is some $250,000 before you even look at the First cabin revenue!

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~ Glen ~

[*]I remember only one inner NorthAmerican ticket that I fully paid for first class (that was 10 days ago the SFO-Phoenix segment (UA Shuttle first) one-way, because everthing else was sold out. The price was about $180.[*]My paid international (mostly transatlantic) business-class tickets automatically become paid first-class on NorthAmerican UA segments in two-class aircrafts (includes Shuttle).[*]My paid StarAlliance-rtw-business-class tickets automatically become paid first-class on NorthAmerican UA segments in two-class aircrafts (includes Shuttle).
[*]when the Swiss population last time voted No to United Nations-membership (only Switzerland and Vatican are not yet full members) one of the 'popular' arguments against the governements proposition was: 'we don't want to pay for UN-administrators first-.class airline-tickets' ...

For a very short period of time last year, the financial institution I work for had a policy that allowed first class travel on transcon flights over 4 hours for all employees. It was quickly changed to allowing only senior investment bankers (whom I assume have never seen the inside of a coach cabin anyway). I myself, never took advantage of this, beacuse of CO's liberal Platinum upgrade policy.