United flies(used to?) LON-DEL and Delta flies FRA-somewhere in Asia. My question is if Air Canada has such a route. From Europe to Asia without going through Canada.

Had is the operative word. Used to fly YYZ-LHR-DEL/BOM-SIN but not to either for many years.

AC offered codeshares with SQ on the following routes: LHR-SIN-LHR and CPH-SIN-CPH. I am not sure if the codeshares still exist, it might be something to look into if you are interested.

One of the rationales for the alliances is to make routes more efficient. AC [and CP] has flown several intercontinental routes that had an initial set down, and then fifth freedom onward rights to a final turnaround spot until a few years ago. Now its flights are routed into hubs of various STAR Alliance partners who carry passengers beyond. As noted above, in the 80s, AC flew YYZ-LHR-BOM-SIN and in the 90s YVR-LHR-DEL. It also flew YUL-LHR-NCE and YYZ-FRA-VIE. CP flew YVR-HKG-BKK until two years ago, then let CX take onward flights from HKG. I believe the only ones AC has left are their Sao Paulo/Buenos Aires and YVR/YYZ-HNL-SYD/MEL runs inherited from CP. [Does Shanghai service continue on to Beijing?]

I particularly liked the LHR-NCE service which was offered 4 times a week and for about $350 ex-LHR one could not only fly to Nice, but also get two nights in a *** hotel. Great bargain, even back in the late 80s.

[Does Shanghai service continue on to Beijing?]

No, it's 2 seperate flights. Not a bad idea for them to consolidate it into 1 flight.

Earlier in the year, I thought that I read somewhere that the Shanghai service was being upgraded to an A340, but now it looks like they are staying with the 763 and service is being reduced to five times weekly. Beijing looks like it will stay a daily 763 service.

When I flew over to PEK at the end of August, the plane was surprisingly full. I flew SEA-YVR and I think that almost everyone on board the flight was connecting to AC Asian services (a fog delay forced connection annoucements). There were something like 12 for Beijing, 9 for Narita, 7 for Taipei etc. If there is indeed a lot of USA-Asia service through YVR, I would assume that most AC Asian service would be fine. Plus, AC is really competitive (cheap!) out of the states for all advance bookings.

Other extensions:
LHR-DUS
FRA-SXF [not local traffic though as I recall]
also FRA-DEL for a few flights

Extensions are considered to costly now. The airline absorbs all the cost of the run for an incremental increase in passengers. By giving them to the partner airline, you save all the cost and keep most of the revenue.

Now I am surprised to hear about YOW-YUL-LHR. I thought we had proved this as nonsense a long time ago. Same as YEG-YYC-LHR. Dash-8's carry the traffic much cheaper.

Now I am surprised to hear about YOW-YUL-LHR. I thought we had proved this as nonsense a long time ago.

As AC likes to describe their airbus, they are using the ultra-efficient A330 on this route. {Geez... feels like I am talking like FlyerAl here!}

Btw, doesn't AC fly YYZ-MAN-GLA-MAN-YYZ all on 1 aircraft?

Empress you might feel you are talking like Flyer Al, but I will not start worrying until you also start talking about the "award winning envoy class".

Empress:

In the Winter AC used to fly YYZ-MAN-GLA-YYZ on day "one" and YYZ-GLA-MAN-YYZ on day "two". As noted in earlier topic they are not operating either of these routes this winter.

CP had it YYZ-YOW-LHR, which made a nice alternative ride to the F28 YYZ-YOW.

I suspect if they offered a Dash-8 YOW-YUL for passengers wanting LHR, a lot would fly through YYZ.

There's also one-stop service YOW-YVR, so perhaps YOW passengers respond significantly better to direct flights on these routes.

andrew

Don't forget YVR-HKG-MNL which was a continuation of CP 7 for a while. Also, the route to HKG used to be YVR-NRT-HKG a decade earlier so those rights probably still exist (not that NH would be too happy about AC using this right). Not sure if the rights for Canada-LIM-SCL-EZE still exists.

I think CP service to the PRC in the '80s was YVR-SHA-PEK.

[This message has been edited by terenz (edited 10-16-2001).]

Well the AC A-330 Executive First feature the same video-on-demand system that exists in US Airways' A-330 award-winning Envoy Class. So yeah, I'd say you're starting to talk like me (scary thought eh?)

The problem with YOW-YUL extension on an International is two-fold.

1. To make the flight attractive it cannot have local traffic YOW-YUL [transit time, customs, immigration, and duty free problems]. So there is no extra revenue to pay the costs. There is no add-on fare for YOW over YUL.

2. The aircraft could be used better to route to domestic Rapidair on Prime flights and then also rotate the aircraft via YYZ. This circulates the fin through YYZ and allows more maintenance downtime.

ok maybe 3. Most times, the roundtrip YUL-YOW-YUL requires one whole new crew just for two 40 minute legs.