Seeking advice on the differences between CO and DL programs, from the point of view of a "never-to-be-elite-on-either." I've perused the forums of both, but it's hard to get a feel for which might be better vis a vis the other. Here's the situation...

Over the years I've amassed about 300K of Amex (Canada) Membership Rewards points, that I can transfer to either DL or CO. (I can also use them for other awards, but get very little value for them.) Problem with Amex MR is that in 3 weeks (Dec 15) they substantially reduce the number of airline points you get. Right now it's 1:1, but Dec 16 I'll receive only .75 DL or CO points for each MR point -- a 25% instant devaluation of my MR points.

And here's my expected standing in DL and CO programs: Zilch. Zip. Nada. Nothing. I don't expect, or even intend, to attain status in either program. The airline situation in Canada is such that I'm pretty much bound to Star Alliance, which means AC and UA. But I still have these points I want full value for.

I expect/hope to use them for two possible purposes -- first is for high-value overseas awards, in the best class of service possible. (If I had my druthers, I'd be putting them into a program where I could still get BA First awards, like I used to with Canadian Airlines (R.I.P.)) These are once a year type vacations, usually for 2-3 weeks. But probably to my advantage, my dates are very flexible, and I usually holiday/adventure in less popular places (i.e. not Hawaii, etc.) India, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Turkey, and Egypt are a few of the places BA First has taken me in the last several years. In fact even the destination is flexible. If I was offered Singapore 'cause there were no awards available on Copenhagen, I'd probably say "sure!"

My first choice would be to use my points to obtain a similar class of travel to similarly atypical destinations.

The second possible use, and it would be secondary, would be to upgrade domestic/North American flights, on an occaisional basis. For example, this coming weekend I've used some long stagnant NW miles to upgrade a CO flight on SEA-ANC. It's pretty rare that I'd be in this situation, but like many I have a real aversion (read: fear) to flying in coach.

I'd be most grateful for any and all opinions one which is the best option. Splitting my MR points anywhere from 50/50 to 100/0 or 0/100 is within the realm of possibility. I'd also be grateful for any other suggestions, or suggestions for beyond what I've described above.

Thanks for reading, especially this far.

[This message has been edited by Ken hAAmer (edited 11-27-2001).]

First I should say I was unaware that AMEX had devalued points being transfered from MP to CO and Delta. Is this universal or unique to your situation?

There are problems with using either Delta or CO for overseas upgraded travel as a non-elite. With Delta, they allocate few seats to Business and in my experience, getting an upgradable seat to, say, Paris, is near impossible unless you are willing to waitlist and hope. Thus, purchasing coach and using miles to upgrade is not attractive since you commit to an expensive coach seat, hoping to clear the upgrade list. Many report here on Flyer Talk that waitlisted upgrades do get cleared, though I don't know the actual percentage. The best way may be to try to book a Delta award without a paid ticket (eg. all points) and book 11 months ahead or whatever the lead time for Delta is.

CO is much worse as a non-elite. They do not allow anyone who is non-Gold to get a Business seat less than 30 days before the flight. Note I said Gold-even lower level elites get no slack. So I suppose if you are extrememly flexible you could waitlist CO for a free seat (eg. Do not buy coach since you have no assurance of an upgrade), then hope for a Business seat.

Depending upong your destination, you might try some of AMEX's lesser known partners depending on the cost of getting to one of their gateways.

Back to the top-what's with the 25% devaluation?

I have some experience with both programs, being gold or higher on one or the other since 1992 and switching twice. My main use is for free travel in coach, and I do like to try to hit different destinations.

While I lean ever-stronger toward CO for my own set of circumstances, in yours I'd actually have to give DL the edge. They seem better on redemptions and seat availability and a can-do attitude there, in my experience. They're very strong to Europe, and SkyTeam is, for the moment, more formidable than Continental alliances. That may change with KLM's integration, though.

Continental, OTOH, has lower award levels (if you can find seats) and some pretty out-of-the-way routes (try the Island Hopper through Micronesia, for example). They also are strong in Latin America and do quite a few award sales there. I'd give CO an edge in that area in general: I went to Hong Kong for 25K miles and Germany for 20K earlier in the year. DL also did a few sales, though. If you can pounce on award sales they're great. It might be worth it to split 50/50 just to play those on both airlines.

You probably have high status on AC, so call the mileage lines of CO and DL and see if they will grant you mid-level status based on your track record. Transfer points to the one that gives it to you.

Just to clarify for Mountain Trader, and not panic anyone else in the U.S. or other Amex Membership Rewards programs, Ken is speaking of the devaluation of the MR points here in Canada, not the U.S., which runs their own MR program separately from the one up here.
I'm in the same boat as Ken, but with a much less amount of MR points looking for a good home before Dec. 15.
Leaning towards CO, but no decisions as yet.
Any help or suggestions would also be much appreciated.

bj-21.

My point of view,
Split your MR in 2 to CO and DL,
Delta is not offering 1st class, but reward need less points than CO for partners.
CO: 100k Bizz
150K 1st
200k AF Concorde
DL: 80k Bizz
160k AF Concorde
Don't forget the partners, AF, AZ etc...It's much easier to leave from Canada to Europe with a partner than US on DL or CO!

Same advice I gave in this thread for 400k points:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum69/HTML/000835.html

Split them up between the two programs.

If you had less than 200K or so I might consider only one program, but with that many you're better off with the flexibility of having 150K+ in each program.

For someone ex-YVR, I'd have to go with CO.

With a quick perusal of DL's website it looks like they only have 3 regional jet flights daily to SLC.

Compare this to the CO/NW/HP partnership with flights to IAH, MSP, PHX, and SEA. I think you'll have a lot more opportunity for international and transborder travel with CO.

Canadian travel with both pretty much sucks, but you already knew that.


[This message has been edited by skofarrell (edited 11-27-2001).]

that sounds like the best way to go, IMHO...

BTW, for all of you who are wondering, the reduction in value that he is referring to applies only to canadian MR members.

[This message has been edited by duxfan (edited 11-27-2001).]

I've decided to go with DL. In the past (post-CP expiry), I've moved about 300K to DL and have been relatively satisfied with their front cabin service. I've used the points primarily for leisure travel, LAS, SFO, MCO out of YYZ. So before Dec. 16 I'm going to move the majority of my MR points (about 250K) to DL and cross my fingers that it's the right choice.

The one thing that I always like to have is a diversity of miles. Some in multiple programs, if possible especially if non-flight miles. When your primary carrier cannot get you there and you don't have elite status on multiple carriers, it pays to have another source of miles.
Because I live in Houston I'm silver on CO, but because of a trip earlier this year on KL I'm also silver on NW. This bodes well for CO/NW/HP/KL but I also try to keep a cache of miles built up in DL too(Skymiles card for the 2x miles opportunities Gas etc....) This allows me to call multiple carriers (DL/UL) to see if a low mileage seat is available and saves me from having to fork over 50K for a domestic ticket when there is limited availability on my primary carriers.


Just my 2C.
BSL

I also have routed Amex points to MX before and booked rewards on *Alliance

What about transferring them to Starwood Preferred Guest? You can park them there up to a year w/out a hotel stay while you decide where you want to use them. That should also give you access to more airlines and their 5,000 point bonus for every 20,000 you transfer. There are varying limits on the number of points you can transfer to different airline programs, though.

[This message has been edited by blomster (edited 11-27-2001).]

Ken, we are in the same boat. I think our needs and interests are similar as well from what I gather of your description. You should check out these:

Delta Partners


Delta Czech Airlines
AeroMexico Korean Air
Air France Malaysia Airlines
Air Jamaica Singapore Airlines
Alitalia South African Airways
China Southern United Airlines


Continental Partners

Aces Airlines
Air France
Alitalia
EVA Airways
Hawaiian Airlines
Qantas

There is no comparison whose partners are more exotic and extensive. I wouldn't bet on the chance of getting award on Air France using CO miles. Besides, flying within North-America is pretty much uselss because AC and UA combined fly to pretty much everywhere. Qantas is a pearl in CO program but it's really hard to get award on Qantas using CO miles. I know this b/c I have researched before. DL partners fly to some pretty exotic places. For example, Singapore Airlines can fly between Egypt and UAE or to Maldives from Singapore. Malaysia Airlines can take you from Buenos Aires to Kuala Lumpur via South Africa' Johannesburg. South African Airways opens your door to the exotic African continent. The significance of Air France is small because there are many good if not perfect alternatives to Air France due to its geographic position and flying on AF is not cheap in terms of miles. Transfer to HH is equal between the two airlines and HH: 1 mile for 2 points.

As I said before, my choice is Delta @ 100%.

[This message has been edited by Guava (edited 11-27-2001).]

Guava,

For Continental you missed some pretty big players:

Northwest (the biggest and most integrated OnePass partner)
America West

These two arlines are linked with CO, so you can very easily book travel outside of the "partner" scheme.

More info: http://onepass.continental.com/rtravel.htm

Before you rush to Delta, I'd ask about award travel and award travel with partners in the CO and DL forums.


[This message has been edited by skofarrell (edited 11-27-2001).]

The following comment may seem offensive to some, so I apologize in advance if it's the case: I don't fly Northworst. Why bother with North American carriers when Air Canada and UA can get me everywher I want to go within NA already? By the way, to give you an idea how bad Northwest is, see this link:

http://www.airlinequality.com/StarRanking/3star.htm

The only major North American carrier to receive such 'distinction' of being compared to Third World airlines. It would be a waste of miles to fly on such carrier.

I am throughly familar with award booking on CO and DL partners, trust me. I have dealt with both in the past on the partners I mentionned above. And if we take a poll, I think the overwhelming majority of FTers are going to tell you it's much easier to obtain an award on DL than CO.