Wedging in Wide Bodies (from ABCNews.com)
#1
Original Poster
Original Member




Join Date: May 1998
Location: CH-3823 Wengen Switzerland
Programs: miles&more, MileagePlus
Posts: 27,043
Wedging in Wide Bodies (from ABCNews.com)
(By Christopher Elliott Special to ABCNEWS.com)
When airlines decided how wide they wanted their seats in sardine class, James Armstrong jokes, they must have taken the average size of a person — including infants — into account. But when the Foster City, Calif., software engineer travels, the joke’s on him. “It can lead to a few days of stiff muscles and a sore back on arrival,” he fusses. “The seats are definitely too narrow.” Just as cramped legroom puts the squeeze on tall passengers, narrow seats can trap travelers like Armstrong, who has a broad frame, in a virtual vise grip. It’s gotten so bad that he prefers to stand and walk around the cabin when the seatbelt sign is off. Even though Overeaters Anonymous hasn’t formally approached the carriers about increasing the seat size, there’s some grumbling among the rank-and-file. “There are plenty of us who have had unpleasant experiences trying to wedge ourselves into narrow seats,” says one senior member, who insisted on anonymity.
Smaller Seats, Bigger Passengers
Indeed, the average seat in economy class is roughly 17.5 inches wide. By my calculations, anyone with more than a 44-inch waist wouldn’t be able to sit in such a confined space. Instead, he or she would have to push back the armrests and invade a seatmate’s space or obstruct the aisle. That’s exactly what happened to Ronald Olshausen, a consultant who recently got wedged between “two absolutely enormous women, probably weighing 300 pounds each” for an 11-hour flight between San Francisco and Paris. At one point during the flight, he says, he was so compressed from both sides that he blacked out. “It was a miserable flight.” Don’t look to the Federal Aviation Administration for help on this issue. As long as travelers can get to and from the seat under their own power, stuffing big people in little seats is OK by the government. Cruel, but OK. That’s not right, says Austin aviation attorney Michael Slack. “The seat sizes are going in one direction while the average size of a person is going in another. And I’m not just talking about morbidly obese people. It’s getting to the point where even small people can’t sit comfortably,” he says. Slack believes airlines approach manufacturers with cabin specifications that maximize profits while disregarding pain. “It’s all a matter of capacity.”
Uniform Seat Code? Frank Hopkins, an audiovisual consultant to the California State Senate, thinks it’s time for a little disclosure. “Ideally,” he says, “airports of any consequence would have a set of model seats that visitors could test-sit and decide if they could stand such close quarters for a prolonged period.” “We have a Universal Product Code on just about every item we sell these days,” he points out. “Can’t we come up with a similar code for the width, depth and pitch of airline seats?” Wouldn’t that be nice? But I doubt it would change anyone’s itinerary. Given that suffering is such an integral part of the airline travel experience today, what are a few extra inches over a few hours? To passengers like our anonymous friend, they’re a lot. The rest of us will endure the discomfort because we’re getting a dirt-cheap fare.
Finding a Way to Fit In
Never mind the logistics of widening seats. In order to expand seat size, an airline would have to sacrifice a whole row of seats or an entire aisle, neither of which is feasible or reasonable. Leaving us with two alternatives: upgrade all the wide bodies to first class or leave it up to big people to deal with the discomforts. Maybe a little bit of both is called for. Gate agents, who are the final arbiters of who gets the good seats and who doesn’t, should show some compassion for their heavier passengers. And large passengers should make the effort to alert the airline to their condition and try to book a seat next to an empty space. After all, every major airline will accommodate a passenger with a disability and obesity qualifies as a kind of disability.
But ultimately it is up to aircraft manufacturers, airlines and the companies that make the seats to make us feel less like we’re sitting in a trash compactor and more as if we’re customers.
When airlines decided how wide they wanted their seats in sardine class, James Armstrong jokes, they must have taken the average size of a person — including infants — into account. But when the Foster City, Calif., software engineer travels, the joke’s on him. “It can lead to a few days of stiff muscles and a sore back on arrival,” he fusses. “The seats are definitely too narrow.” Just as cramped legroom puts the squeeze on tall passengers, narrow seats can trap travelers like Armstrong, who has a broad frame, in a virtual vise grip. It’s gotten so bad that he prefers to stand and walk around the cabin when the seatbelt sign is off. Even though Overeaters Anonymous hasn’t formally approached the carriers about increasing the seat size, there’s some grumbling among the rank-and-file. “There are plenty of us who have had unpleasant experiences trying to wedge ourselves into narrow seats,” says one senior member, who insisted on anonymity.
Smaller Seats, Bigger Passengers
Indeed, the average seat in economy class is roughly 17.5 inches wide. By my calculations, anyone with more than a 44-inch waist wouldn’t be able to sit in such a confined space. Instead, he or she would have to push back the armrests and invade a seatmate’s space or obstruct the aisle. That’s exactly what happened to Ronald Olshausen, a consultant who recently got wedged between “two absolutely enormous women, probably weighing 300 pounds each” for an 11-hour flight between San Francisco and Paris. At one point during the flight, he says, he was so compressed from both sides that he blacked out. “It was a miserable flight.” Don’t look to the Federal Aviation Administration for help on this issue. As long as travelers can get to and from the seat under their own power, stuffing big people in little seats is OK by the government. Cruel, but OK. That’s not right, says Austin aviation attorney Michael Slack. “The seat sizes are going in one direction while the average size of a person is going in another. And I’m not just talking about morbidly obese people. It’s getting to the point where even small people can’t sit comfortably,” he says. Slack believes airlines approach manufacturers with cabin specifications that maximize profits while disregarding pain. “It’s all a matter of capacity.”
Uniform Seat Code? Frank Hopkins, an audiovisual consultant to the California State Senate, thinks it’s time for a little disclosure. “Ideally,” he says, “airports of any consequence would have a set of model seats that visitors could test-sit and decide if they could stand such close quarters for a prolonged period.” “We have a Universal Product Code on just about every item we sell these days,” he points out. “Can’t we come up with a similar code for the width, depth and pitch of airline seats?” Wouldn’t that be nice? But I doubt it would change anyone’s itinerary. Given that suffering is such an integral part of the airline travel experience today, what are a few extra inches over a few hours? To passengers like our anonymous friend, they’re a lot. The rest of us will endure the discomfort because we’re getting a dirt-cheap fare.
Finding a Way to Fit In
Never mind the logistics of widening seats. In order to expand seat size, an airline would have to sacrifice a whole row of seats or an entire aisle, neither of which is feasible or reasonable. Leaving us with two alternatives: upgrade all the wide bodies to first class or leave it up to big people to deal with the discomforts. Maybe a little bit of both is called for. Gate agents, who are the final arbiters of who gets the good seats and who doesn’t, should show some compassion for their heavier passengers. And large passengers should make the effort to alert the airline to their condition and try to book a seat next to an empty space. After all, every major airline will accommodate a passenger with a disability and obesity qualifies as a kind of disability.
But ultimately it is up to aircraft manufacturers, airlines and the companies that make the seats to make us feel less like we’re sitting in a trash compactor and more as if we’re customers.
#2
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 778
It truly is dissapointing.
I am not sure what the answer is. I am a great believer in the marketplace, and evidently, the marketplace is saying that travelers prefer the lowest price over a half-way decent seat and a meal.
I still believe that there is a place in the market for a "super coach," or even vanilla business class on domestic flights. Major carriers are opting for "super economy," e.g. Shuttle by United, Metrojet, Delta Express, so one would think that by default that they would marginally improve their standard coach service...
Puzzled.
I am not sure what the answer is. I am a great believer in the marketplace, and evidently, the marketplace is saying that travelers prefer the lowest price over a half-way decent seat and a meal.
I still believe that there is a place in the market for a "super coach," or even vanilla business class on domestic flights. Major carriers are opting for "super economy," e.g. Shuttle by United, Metrojet, Delta Express, so one would think that by default that they would marginally improve their standard coach service...
Puzzled.
#3
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: DEN, UA PE, Hilton Gold, ** Reactivate Delete Feature**
Posts: 650
I would certainly pay more for some more comfort in economy seating. Unfortunately, I assume the airlines have done their calculations and they couldn't recover the loss of some seats (to make room) with the increased ticket sales.
-QL
-QL
#4
Commander Catcop
Join Date: May 1998
Posts: 10,259
Smaller seats = more seats = more passengers = more revenue.
This is why I always ask for an aisle seat. At least only half of my will get squished.
And this is why I always seek business or first class. This tall and husky body of mine can barely fit in those seats! I need a little room to keep the blood circulating!
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CATMAN
This is why I always ask for an aisle seat. At least only half of my will get squished.
And this is why I always seek business or first class. This tall and husky body of mine can barely fit in those seats! I need a little room to keep the blood circulating!
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CATMAN
#5
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Pasadena, CA. USA
Posts: 1,438
I think the airline's studies showed although many consumers say that they are willing to pay more for better seats/service, their action tells the opposite story.
Personally, I am willing to pay more. I am all for a super economy class (see my post under "four class service")!
Personally, I am willing to pay more. I am all for a super economy class (see my post under "four class service")!
#6
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Arlington VA
Posts: 9
Didn't TWA try giving everyone a little extra leg room a few years back??? However I think that it's a little far fetched that the airlines will give us extra BUTT room!!!
Does anyone know if you buy two seats if you can get double miles???
Does anyone know if you buy two seats if you can get double miles???
#7
Original Member


Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,226
Canadian Airlines (CP) has just begun to remove 7 rows of economy seats on their 747s to give everyone more leg room. By my rough calculation, that will increase the seat pitch in economy from 34" to more than 40"
As well, they have removed 1 row of business class seats (already nicer than first on most US carriers) to make a good business class even better. (Pick the right business class seats on a CP 747, and you already had enough legroom to park a small car. Now you'll probably be able to park a truck.
So don't give up, there may be hope yet.
Ken
As well, they have removed 1 row of business class seats (already nicer than first on most US carriers) to make a good business class even better. (Pick the right business class seats on a CP 747, and you already had enough legroom to park a small car. Now you'll probably be able to park a truck.

So don't give up, there may be hope yet.
Ken
#8
Original Member


Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,226
BIGRICKY:
Sadly, the answer is no, you can only ever get points for one seat, regardless of how many seats you purchase. Musicians carrying large valuable intruments run into this problem from time to time.
Ken
Sadly, the answer is no, you can only ever get points for one seat, regardless of how many seats you purchase. Musicians carrying large valuable intruments run into this problem from time to time.
Ken

