Superbowl, jan-31st-99, Miami
#1
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Join Date: May 1998
Location: CH-3823 Wengen Switzerland
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Posts: 27,043
Superbowl, jan-31st-99, Miami
We (3 Swiss: my brother, his sister and me) will be in Miami on that weekend. And we want to go to the Superbowl.
I know about the difficulties and grey-market-prices fort tickets. What I can^t judge is the reliability of the ticket-brokers on the Internet.
We are willing to pay a grey-market-price in the range of US$ 1'000 per ticket (total of 3 tickets) for "just get us in" tickets.
But we want to be sure that the tickets will finally be delivered (to our hotel in Miami the day before the game).
How can I judge the brokers (beeing myself in Switzerland, but at the end of august in New York and in Spetember and November in San Francisco and Seattle)?
How shall I proceed (I would like to know more about a broker than just his Internet-address)? any tips are more than welcome (you can inform me here or by email - whatever you prefer).
A year ago (at San Diego) the broker only delivered (I paid him 4 moths before) after the local police (which I did call on Sunday morning) forced him to (the/my story has been published afterwards by Peter Rowley in the San Diego Herald afterwards).
I know about the difficulties and grey-market-prices fort tickets. What I can^t judge is the reliability of the ticket-brokers on the Internet.
We are willing to pay a grey-market-price in the range of US$ 1'000 per ticket (total of 3 tickets) for "just get us in" tickets.
But we want to be sure that the tickets will finally be delivered (to our hotel in Miami the day before the game).
How can I judge the brokers (beeing myself in Switzerland, but at the end of august in New York and in Spetember and November in San Francisco and Seattle)?
How shall I proceed (I would like to know more about a broker than just his Internet-address)? any tips are more than welcome (you can inform me here or by email - whatever you prefer).
A year ago (at San Diego) the broker only delivered (I paid him 4 moths before) after the local police (which I did call on Sunday morning) forced him to (the/my story has been published afterwards by Peter Rowley in the San Diego Herald afterwards).
#2
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Join Date: May 1998
Location: New York - DL Gold, AA Gold, AC Prestige, VS Silver
Posts: 811
Rudi, you are a very lucky man - although grey-market dealing in tickets is quite open and there are many ticket brokers that advertise, etc. - it is still technically illegal, And hence you are quite lucky that the local police was willing to help you in this regard as most cops would not be willing to proceed in this manner.
Actually buying scalped sports tickets involves the same fundamental issue that buying tickets from ff coupon brokers (who also advertise openly) does - you are not breaking any government laws hoever you are breaking the civil contract that you have with the airline (or event venue) - hence if I was fleeced by a coupon broker I would definitely have trouble getting law enforcement to bail me out.
I suspect that the police helped you out partly because you were a tourist in the US.
Actually buying scalped sports tickets involves the same fundamental issue that buying tickets from ff coupon brokers (who also advertise openly) does - you are not breaking any government laws hoever you are breaking the civil contract that you have with the airline (or event venue) - hence if I was fleeced by a coupon broker I would definitely have trouble getting law enforcement to bail me out.
I suspect that the police helped you out partly because you were a tourist in the US.
#3
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Join Date: May 1998
Location: Kansas City, MO, USA
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Ticket brokering is not universally illegal in the US. Only certain cities and states have laws against it, and others do not.
Some cities even have rules regulating the trade, such as Phoenix, where they allow brokering in certain designated areas only outside of events.
Some cities even have rules regulating the trade, such as Phoenix, where they allow brokering in certain designated areas only outside of events.
#4
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Posts: 79
As a person who attends many sold-out college football games where tickets can go as high as $1000 a pair, I have a lot of experience with buying tickets.
First, each state has it's own laws regarding the reselling of tickets. In Tennessee, it is fully legal to resell tickets at any price. In Alabama, you must have a license to resell tickets. In Georgia and Louisiana, it is legal to resell tickets, provided you do not charge more than the face value on the ticket. I am unsure about the laws in Florida or about how the laws affect interstate or international ticket purchases. Also realize that laws change, so the laws for the states above might not be the same now; and realize that local governments can pass additional laws.
If you get a package deal, a federal law now requires the agency selling the vacation package to either have the tickets or have them under contract. If you do not get your tickets, you are entitled to a full refund of the entire vacation package, even if you used the rest of the vacation package.
Generally, Superbowl tickets will drop in price as kickoff nears. Usually tickets can be bought for face value or near face value on the day of the game. I do not know this firsthand, but I have read articles on the tickets pricing for the Superbowl.
First, each state has it's own laws regarding the reselling of tickets. In Tennessee, it is fully legal to resell tickets at any price. In Alabama, you must have a license to resell tickets. In Georgia and Louisiana, it is legal to resell tickets, provided you do not charge more than the face value on the ticket. I am unsure about the laws in Florida or about how the laws affect interstate or international ticket purchases. Also realize that laws change, so the laws for the states above might not be the same now; and realize that local governments can pass additional laws.
If you get a package deal, a federal law now requires the agency selling the vacation package to either have the tickets or have them under contract. If you do not get your tickets, you are entitled to a full refund of the entire vacation package, even if you used the rest of the vacation package.
Generally, Superbowl tickets will drop in price as kickoff nears. Usually tickets can be bought for face value or near face value on the day of the game. I do not know this firsthand, but I have read articles on the tickets pricing for the Superbowl.
#5
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Join Date: May 1998
Location: CH-3823 Wengen Switzerland
Programs: miles&more, MileagePlus
Posts: 27,043
Last year - the contrary was the case: the (SWISS cheese hats wearing) green bay packers - fans (I learned that the green bay packers are the only team to be owned by the local fans) made prices explose (and only about 15 minutes after the game started did prices come down - but we want to see the pre-game show as well - and I don't want to get to nervous on the game weekend without tickets in my (secret) pocket - in this case I would prefer to pay a higher price.
But I know that tickets are only printed and available after the Division-championships (14 days before the Bowl). And I am looking for a ticketbroker I can rely on DELIVERY and I want to know his real business-address BEFORE I send him my credit-card-informations.
Any recommendations for what to do (and what not ...). If you prefer - please email.
Do you know any real place I can visit for dealing/buying in person on my next trips to New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Vancouver, Washington D.C.?
For informations which lead to a successfull buying I promis a big pack of Swiss chocolates by FedEX (but I don't take any responsability for the calories ...).
But I know that tickets are only printed and available after the Division-championships (14 days before the Bowl). And I am looking for a ticketbroker I can rely on DELIVERY and I want to know his real business-address BEFORE I send him my credit-card-informations.
Any recommendations for what to do (and what not ...). If you prefer - please email.
Do you know any real place I can visit for dealing/buying in person on my next trips to New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Vancouver, Washington D.C.?
For informations which lead to a successfull buying I promis a big pack of Swiss chocolates by FedEX (but I don't take any responsability for the calories ...).
#6
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Join Date: May 1998
Location: CH-3823 Wengen Switzerland
Programs: miles&more, MileagePlus
Posts: 27,043
here is my last year's story:
PETER ROWE (The San Diego Union-Tribune, feb-12)
Flimflam goes awry and the good guys win
The sure thing, Super Bowl Sunday reminded us, often isn't. Consider the Denver Broncos, trounced in the sports books and triumphant in Qualcomm Stadium.
Now consider Rudi and Wolfram Martel. These Swiss brothers traveled to America's Finest City -- only to be snagged in one of America's sleaziest scams.
Last October, the Martels paid a travel agent $2,150 for two Super Bowl tickets. The agent paid a San Diego ticket broker. The brothers made reservations.
It's Jan. 25. Our Swiss friends enter downtown San Diego's Westgate Hotel. From the lobby, they phone Room 993.
"We've come to get our tickets," Rudi Martel says.
"The price," the broker replies, "has gone up."
Way up -- to $3,000. Per ticket.
It's 10 a.m. Kickoff is at 3:18 p.m., little more than five hours away. The clock is ticking.
The broker has a sure thing.
Rudi phones Dona Thornwall, his travel agent. From Northern California -- she's in Half Moon Bay -- she calls the broker's hotel room.
"More money or no tickets," he insists.
10:15 a.m.: Thornwall phones the Westgate's front desk. "Did you know a guest is using the hotel for extortion?"
Westgate General Manager Joe Wancha calls the cops.
10:30: Leaving the hotel, the broker is stopped by Wancha. "Are you having a problem with a lady called Dona Thornwall over some Super Bowl tickets?"
"No. I have it under control."
10:52: Officers Brenda T. Yancey and David Hall meet the Martels at the Westgate. Working the 6 a.m.-4 p.m. shift, the cops are busy. Yancey's log this day will run three pages; the entries range from "Lost Bronco fan" to "Drunk at Goodwill Store."
Yancey and Hall take statements from Rudi Martel, Wancha and -- by phone -- Thornwall.
11:31: Thornwall faxes the Martels' receipts to the Westgate. These show the Swiss brothers were charged $2,150 for Super Bowl tickets. The seats are in the end zone, "high up at 'eagles nest,'" Rudi Martel says, using the Swiss term for "nosebleed section."
12:02 p.m.: Officers Yancey and Hall knock on the door of Room 993. No answer.
Yancey wonders about the broker: "Are we gonna get to this guy before the game?"
Hall wonders about the tourists: "To come all this way and then have to watch the game in a sports bar? That sucks."
12:06: Sgt. Harvey Love arrives at the hotel.
12:10: Wancha unlocks Room 993. Yancey and Hall search the room. No tickets.
1:11: The broker calls the hotel. "The police are here," Wancha tells him. "They need to talk to you."
1:18: Two hours before kickoff, the broker arrives at the Westgate -- without tickets. He tells the cops that a friend will deliver them. "This has been a bad day."
The day could get worse, Yancey notes. "Either you come up with the tickets," she says, "or you're going to jail."
The broker works the phone.
1:31: In the lobby, the Martels are summoned to a house phone. Sgt. Love invites them up to Room 993. Their tickets have arrived.
1:32: While the broker apologizes, Rudi Martel examines the tickets in his hands. These aren't the tickets he ordered. These are better -- first row, plaza level.
Two weeks pass. Rudi Martel contacts the San Diego media. He has a message for Officers Yancey and Hall and Sgt. Love: "You did a wonderful job for two stranded Swiss tourists. Thank you very much."
Strangers in a foreign city, the Martels were easy marks. They were a scam artist's sure thing -- until three cops, a hotel manager and a travel agent decided otherwise.
Even so, they should have had a miserable Super Bowl. Disappointment should have been a sure thing.
They're Broncos fans.
PETER ROWE's column appears Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday. He welcomes phone calls, (619) 293-1227; faxes, (619) 235-8916; and e-mail, [email protected]
Copyright 1998 Union-Tribune Publishing Co.
PETER ROWE (The San Diego Union-Tribune, feb-12)
Flimflam goes awry and the good guys win
The sure thing, Super Bowl Sunday reminded us, often isn't. Consider the Denver Broncos, trounced in the sports books and triumphant in Qualcomm Stadium.
Now consider Rudi and Wolfram Martel. These Swiss brothers traveled to America's Finest City -- only to be snagged in one of America's sleaziest scams.
Last October, the Martels paid a travel agent $2,150 for two Super Bowl tickets. The agent paid a San Diego ticket broker. The brothers made reservations.
It's Jan. 25. Our Swiss friends enter downtown San Diego's Westgate Hotel. From the lobby, they phone Room 993.
"We've come to get our tickets," Rudi Martel says.
"The price," the broker replies, "has gone up."
Way up -- to $3,000. Per ticket.
It's 10 a.m. Kickoff is at 3:18 p.m., little more than five hours away. The clock is ticking.
The broker has a sure thing.
Rudi phones Dona Thornwall, his travel agent. From Northern California -- she's in Half Moon Bay -- she calls the broker's hotel room.
"More money or no tickets," he insists.
10:15 a.m.: Thornwall phones the Westgate's front desk. "Did you know a guest is using the hotel for extortion?"
Westgate General Manager Joe Wancha calls the cops.
10:30: Leaving the hotel, the broker is stopped by Wancha. "Are you having a problem with a lady called Dona Thornwall over some Super Bowl tickets?"
"No. I have it under control."
10:52: Officers Brenda T. Yancey and David Hall meet the Martels at the Westgate. Working the 6 a.m.-4 p.m. shift, the cops are busy. Yancey's log this day will run three pages; the entries range from "Lost Bronco fan" to "Drunk at Goodwill Store."
Yancey and Hall take statements from Rudi Martel, Wancha and -- by phone -- Thornwall.
11:31: Thornwall faxes the Martels' receipts to the Westgate. These show the Swiss brothers were charged $2,150 for Super Bowl tickets. The seats are in the end zone, "high up at 'eagles nest,'" Rudi Martel says, using the Swiss term for "nosebleed section."
12:02 p.m.: Officers Yancey and Hall knock on the door of Room 993. No answer.
Yancey wonders about the broker: "Are we gonna get to this guy before the game?"
Hall wonders about the tourists: "To come all this way and then have to watch the game in a sports bar? That sucks."
12:06: Sgt. Harvey Love arrives at the hotel.
12:10: Wancha unlocks Room 993. Yancey and Hall search the room. No tickets.
1:11: The broker calls the hotel. "The police are here," Wancha tells him. "They need to talk to you."
1:18: Two hours before kickoff, the broker arrives at the Westgate -- without tickets. He tells the cops that a friend will deliver them. "This has been a bad day."
The day could get worse, Yancey notes. "Either you come up with the tickets," she says, "or you're going to jail."
The broker works the phone.
1:31: In the lobby, the Martels are summoned to a house phone. Sgt. Love invites them up to Room 993. Their tickets have arrived.
1:32: While the broker apologizes, Rudi Martel examines the tickets in his hands. These aren't the tickets he ordered. These are better -- first row, plaza level.
Two weeks pass. Rudi Martel contacts the San Diego media. He has a message for Officers Yancey and Hall and Sgt. Love: "You did a wonderful job for two stranded Swiss tourists. Thank you very much."
Strangers in a foreign city, the Martels were easy marks. They were a scam artist's sure thing -- until three cops, a hotel manager and a travel agent decided otherwise.
Even so, they should have had a miserable Super Bowl. Disappointment should have been a sure thing.
They're Broncos fans.
PETER ROWE's column appears Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday. He welcomes phone calls, (619) 293-1227; faxes, (619) 235-8916; and e-mail, [email protected]
Copyright 1998 Union-Tribune Publishing Co.
#7
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: New York - DL Gold, AA Gold, AC Prestige, VS Silver
Posts: 811
beckles, justin, rudi
I too have extensive experience buying scalped tickets (for music concerts generally U2, Pearl Jam, Smashing Pumpkins, Tori Amos etc.) (football games aren't really my thing) - Anyways the legal question isn't whether it is permitted by local/state/federal govt. but rather the contract between you and the ticket-issuer - i.e ticketmaster issued ticket (they control most concerts) obliges you not to re-sell it i.e. scalping subjects you to possible civil action by ticketmaster. Admittedly, I've heard of very few cases of ticketmaster pursuing ticket brokers and I have never heard of them suing individuals - i.e. it may be permitted by law (depending on city/state etc.) but the contract is the same everywhere.
Not to discourage anyone from buying scalped tickets but rather to warn people not to rely on the local police department to help you out in these kinds of matters
I too have extensive experience buying scalped tickets (for music concerts generally U2, Pearl Jam, Smashing Pumpkins, Tori Amos etc.) (football games aren't really my thing) - Anyways the legal question isn't whether it is permitted by local/state/federal govt. but rather the contract between you and the ticket-issuer - i.e ticketmaster issued ticket (they control most concerts) obliges you not to re-sell it i.e. scalping subjects you to possible civil action by ticketmaster. Admittedly, I've heard of very few cases of ticketmaster pursuing ticket brokers and I have never heard of them suing individuals - i.e. it may be permitted by law (depending on city/state etc.) but the contract is the same everywhere.
Not to discourage anyone from buying scalped tickets but rather to warn people not to rely on the local police department to help you out in these kinds of matters

