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Virgin-Delta Atlantic
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Interesting development. Delta is being as proactive as ever but I wonder how much Air France-KLM actually wants in given that they are still trying to get their own house in order. I wonder what Star is thinking.
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I think this is a good move.
A VS/DL combo would be a great one (again). Hopefully something comes of it. |
Grrr...does that mean Skypesos can be redeemed on VS? That's a significant devaluation right there.
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Originally Posted by percysmith
(Post 19784742)
Grrr...does that mean Skypesos can be redeemed on VS? That's a significant devaluation right there.
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I read the telegraph report yesterday. I appreciate that the airline has lost money this year. Its changing its CEO, and getting short haul routes. I feel this is a bad move for Virgin. Its only my gut feeling, I appreciate that raising capital is difficult at the moment. The UK needs a strong independant airline, along side BA. I feel Delta just wants Heathrow landing slots. If we had a third runway, they wouldnt even look at VS, instead allow it to fail. I also feel, pre internet (I might be wrong) that VS was the only thing that made Virgin group. Othewise it wouldnt be the global company it is today.
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I think the Virgin brand will still exist, just that SRB will be a minority shareholder - much like Virgin America and Virgin Australia. I mean Virgin Australia has flourished recently so it is not an indication of a down hilll road.
I would say it is the opposite. Delta and VS used to be good partners, DL even used to have a staff member on some VS flights if we go back a few years! |
Originally Posted by UA Fan
(Post 19785438)
Why? If there is no YQ, it is another partner for an airline that is very stingy with awards.
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Originally Posted by ANstar
(Post 19786063)
I think the Virgin brand will still exist, just that SRB will be a minority shareholder - much like Virgin America and Virgin Australia. I mean Virgin Australia has flourished recently so it is not an indication of a down hilll road.
I would say it is the opposite. Delta and VS used to be good partners, DL even used to have a staff member on some VS flights if we go back a few years! |
The FT, which has a solid track record of accuracy on reporting aviation deals, has quite a lot of detail on the potential deal, suggesting that AF-KLM could acquire 5-10% of VS, giving SkyTeam carriers control of the airline.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/193efefa-3...#axzz2DvBR1V4J One analyst, who declined to be named, said Singapore had realised that it did not wield significant influence at Virgin – and therefore he questioned what level of control the US airline would have.The answer might be found at Air France-KLM. It was considering the case for buying a stake of between 5 and 10 per cent in Virgin Atlantic, said another person close to the potential deal, who stressed no decisions had been taken. This person said the logic of any transaction involving Air France-KLM would be to secure control of Virgin for SkyTeam – the global airline alliance led by the Franco-Dutch group and Delta. [...] If Air France-KLM bought a stake in Virgin, it would purchase equity from Sir Richard’s Virgin Group, which owns 51 per cent of the UK airline. However, such a development would only happen if Delta were able to reach a deal with Singapore Airlines on its 49 per cent stake in Virgin Atlantic. Air France-KLM had no appetite to buy a stake of more than 10 per cent in Virgin, added the person close to the matter. The group is the most leveraged of the big European flag carriers and is seeking to cut its debt. Air France-KLM declined to comment. |
Has there been any word as to whether or not SRB would be willing to sell? All the speculation is great and all, but if he isn't selling then delta is going to be in the same boat that Singapore Airlines is right now.
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Originally Posted by rurouni212
(Post 19791012)
Has there been any word as to whether or not SRB would be willing to sell? All the speculation is great and all, but if he isn't selling then delta is going to be in the same boat that Singapore Airlines is right now.
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Sq doesn't really need cash, I hope they dont sell vs & instead vs joins star alliance.
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Originally Posted by diamantaire
(Post 19815690)
Sq doesn't really need cash, I hope they dont sell vs & instead vs joins star alliance.
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Originally Posted by ian001
(Post 19803217)
SRB has said in the past he is willing to sell down part of his stake, but has expressed a preference for a new investor acquiring SQ's stake instead. Put another way, I don't think he has said explicitly he's willing to cede control.
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Originally Posted by origin
(Post 19818791)
I thought he asked one of the investment companies to look at all the options.
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http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-times-reports
Could be official by the end of the week. Would the codeshare with SQ go away? |
If Branson sell all his stake in VS, then I may consider flying with VS. otherwise I have plenty of other options. Just personal opinion, please do not shoot.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...e-history.html
All todays newspapers are running this. It did make a loss last year, I am not sure where the money will come from, for Virgin \ SRB stake. |
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...lie-Walsh.html
Sir Richard Branson has thrown down a £1m challenge to Willie Walsh about the future of Virgin Atlantic. |
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Well to be honest, Willie Walsh should a) know better and not make such silly throwaway comments and b) spend a bit more time looking after his own lost airline in Spain which appears to be in much deeper trouble than VS is.
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Originally Posted by colmc
(Post 19831974)
Well to be honest, Willie Walsh should a) know better and not make such silly throwaway comments and b) spend a bit more time looking after his own lost airline in Spain which appears to be in much deeper trouble than VS is.
Virgin Atlantic was cool and interesting about 22 years ago and that's it. Edit: I would agree WW should not be making such comments though. No real upside for him |
Originally Posted by ma91pmh
(Post 19832327)
IAG is a serious contender on the international airline stage.
Virgin Atlantic was cool and interesting about 22 years ago and that's it. Edit: I would agree WW should not be making such comments though. No real upside for him VS is still a cool and interesting airline - to Delta at least, and they might know a thing or two more than you. |
This isnt the first time WW has commented that he feels Virgin days are numbered. I think he is a little upset that he isnt allowed to buy Virign. Thats why he has said it again now. All he wants are the landing slots, he is now aware that there wont be a third runway in his airport of choice during his time.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/avia...-Heathrow.html The latest from the depths of his airline http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...t-survive.html “I don’t think a million pounds would hurt him, I don’t have a million pounds so maybe a bet that would be as painful to him as it might be to me – so maybe something like a knee in the groin,” Mr Walsh said. |
now that the deal is announced my beef with the bearded one is done. glad to see something finally happen rather than endless game-talk.
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This can only be good news for VS.
Delta look like they are willing to help VS grow (with the JV) and seem like they are more able to benefit VS than SQ ever were. I say it won't be long before VS join Skyteam once the dust settles. |
sorry, should have said in here too. I split off posts discussing the annoucement into a new thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/virgi...ake-vs-sq.html
Jenbel Co-moderator, Virgin Flying Club |
What do you guys think would happen to VS's partners and eventually joining an alliance? I am flying US Airways a lot and like the option of adding my miles to VS, does this mean this will change soon? I was also hoping VS will one day join Star Alliance because of the fact SQ owned 49%, but not it looks more likely to be SkyTeam? Isn't it the worst alliance there is?!
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Originally Posted by whole9yards
(Post 19835776)
What do you guys think would happen to VS's partners and eventually joining an alliance? I am flying US Airways a lot and like the option of adding my miles to VS, does this mean this will change soon? I was also hoping VS will one day join Star Alliance because of the fact SQ owned 49%, but not it looks more likely to be SkyTeam? Isn't it the worst alliance there is?!
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Originally Posted by whole9yards
(Post 19835776)
What do you guys think would happen to VS's partners and eventually joining an alliance?
"Commercial arrangements between Singapore Airlines and Virgin Atlantic, encompassing codesharing, frequent-flyer programme ties and reciprocal lounge access, are expected to remain in place after the divestment." http://www.singaporeair.com/jsp/cms/...s/ne121212.jsp |
Did anyone else find it strange that skyteam wasn't mentioned directly during the whole DL buys 49% of VS thing? I know at this point it's obvious that virgin atlantic will likely join skyteam, but I couldn't help but find it peculiar that there was no mention of "and virgin atlantic will be joining skyteam in x months." Perhaps it's because SRB still retains control and they want to hear it come from him first.
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They might not have decided to. Afterall, VS never joined Star (although that might not have been through their choice if something I read recently was correct) despite the fact that SQ owned that 49%.
While most people seem to agree that it's getting harder to survive as a non-aligned airline, particularly since the ME airlines now seem to be aligning, VS still may feel they are better operating outside an alliance framework. |
Originally Posted by Jenbel
(Post 19849812)
They might not have decided to. Afterall, VS never joined Star (although that might not have been through their choice if something I read recently was correct) despite the fact that SQ owned that 49%.
While most people seem to agree that it's getting harder to survive as a non-aligned airline, particularly since the ME airlines now seem to be aligning, VS still may feel they are better operating outside an alliance framework. |
At the press conference, Virgin all but announced that they are planning on joining Skyteam. I imagine there are a lot of details that they need to work out before they can make a formal announcement.
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