That has been the problem with frequent flyer programs for quite some time. We'll see what the refundable F fares turn out to be prior to determining whether VX is actually cheaper, particularly when compared against negotiated discount rates.

"more?"

Well, you could have parsed his sentence to be true:

VX will have rewards that are more "international", in time.

;-) ;-)

:) I was referring to the side-conversation with 'rjque' that was filling up this thread and going in circles. Constructive discussion is more than welcome (thanks again for providing a way to measure the elite bonus).

A good article on the program:

http://www.smartertravel.com/blogs/u...tml?id=2749856

It is a good article from the perspective of VX as he waits until the very end to point out any of the shortcomings of the program. And when he does he doesn't do a very good job of it. I wonder if my comment will be published or not. ;)

I disagree that it's good from the perspective of VX. Ending on the sour note is appropriate, and attention-grabbing. It could have been buried in the middle, after all. The only positive stuff is at the beginning, while he's pointing out all along that he still has questions. By the middle, he's calling redemption for coach "decent if unspectacular". The rest is negative.

Yeah, the 18 month expiration is a BIG problem. Even Southwest isn't that bad (flight credits expire at 24 months).

Not only that, but Southwest doesn't have first class. Like the author says, it will be impossible for most to get an F reward ticket.

I think he says that it will be impossible for most to get any reward ticket, not just an F reward ticket. It's true. As long as the 18 month expiration is there the only people who will be able to redeem are those who make at least 10 VX trips per 18 months or those who spend more than at least $5000 per year on a VX credit card. Despite what one reads on FT, those are two relatively small groups of consumers.

Yeah, plus WN has a lot of partners. To give you an idea, I will have flown 4 WN one way trips in the space of 12 months: but thanks to AMEX points and Dollar rentals (plus some bonuses on the Dollar rentals), I'll be able to turn all of that into a Rapid Rewards ticket by the end of the year- and I'll probably burn it for a SEA-PIT trip next summer via MDW on Southwest for a conference.

Well, I disagree that it will be impossible for most to get any reward ticket. With just a few F revenue tickets you can get a free Y ticket.

Sure, you or I could get a free ticket to Vegas in Y after a couple of F transcons to JFK or IAD, but most people don't buy those expensive tickets. I think the author's point is that the vast majority of people flying VX will never earn enough points to get an award. That's probably true of most airlines' programs but the 18 month expiration removes the possibility of getting a free ticket to Vegas after five years of flying to see grandma at Christmas.

Like WN, VX has adopted a frequent flyer program that requires people to fly frequently to obtain rewards. (Though VX requires people to fly much more frequently than WN). That doesn't really bother me all that much. What does bother me is how uncompetitive the program is for people who pay top dollar for travel.

VX Elevate is THE WORST!!
 

Elevate is THE WORST!! I have flown 8 one way flights on Virgin America between LAX and IAD. That's 18,352 miles on any other airline, or 50% towards a Southwest Rapid Rewards ticket. But Thats only 4580 points on Virgin America (I average $114 per flight). Right now the cheapest flight between IAD and LAX is $134 each way or 12,464 points for a free round trip ticket. So I am only 37% of the points needed to get a free trip, the same flight that I have traveled 4 round trips. With any other airlines I would be 73% towards a 25,000 mileage award, and 50% towards a southwest ticket (Southwest also has no change fees). And all of those other airlines have much larger choice of destinations for my free ticket. The Elevate program is clearly and definitely the WORST in the industry. Interestingly they had 4900 points as the amount for a free ticket on their website for more than a year. Too bad this is NOT even enough for a free ticket for the $59 each way ticket between LAX and SFO which requires 5488 points. What a scam!

I disagree. It's only the worst for people who don't pay high ticket prices. For those who do, eleVAte is not quite the worst, just among the worst.